Terrorists in Prison: is there anything the Right doesn't fear? - Glenn Greenwald - Salon.com »
Posted By Radiofreeeuropa 6 months ago in Political News
The "debate" over all the bad and scary things that will happen if Obama closes Guantanamo and we then incarcerate those detainees in American prisons is so painfully stupid even by the standards of our political discourse that it's hard to put into words, and it also perfectly illustrates the steps that typically lead to America's National Security policies:
(1) Right-wing super-tough-guy warriors project some frightened, adolescent, neurotic fantasy onto the world -- either because they are really petrified by it or because they want others to be ("Putting Muslim Terrorists in our prisons will make us Unsafe! -- Keep them away from me, please!!!");
(2) Rather than scoff at the inane fear-mongering or point out simple facts to reveal its idiocy, Democratic "leaders" such as Harry Reid echo the right-wing fears in order to prove how Serious and Tough they are -- in our political debates, the more frightened one is, the more Serious and Tough one is -- and/or because they are genuinely frightened of being called mean names by Sean Hannity ("Harry Reid isn't as scared of this as I am, which shows that he's weak");
(3) "Journalists" who are capable of nothing other than mindlessly reciting what they hear then write articles depicting the Right's frightened neurosis as a Serious argument, and then overnight, a consensus emerges: Democrats are in big trouble politically unless they show that they, too, are as deeply frightened as the Right is.
Until recently, I thought the single most embarrassingly stupid event of the last decade's national security debates -- the kind that will make historians look back with slack-jawed amazement -- was the joint dissemination in the run-up to the war by the Bush administration and the American media of playing cards that featured all of the "Most Wanted" Iraqi Villains and their cartoon villain nicknames. Saddam Hussein was the Ace of Spades; Huda Salih Mahdi Ammash -- Mrs. Anthrax -- was the Five of Hearts; Ali Hassan al-Majid -- Chemical Ali -- was the King of Spades; sadly, Dr. Rihab Rashid Taha -- the dreaded "Dr. Germ" -- didn't make it to the deck, but she certainly had her day in the American media sun (AP: "Iraq's 'Dr. Germ' Surrenders to Coalition" -- CNN: "U.S. military holding 'Dr. Germ,' 'Mrs. Anthrax'").
If you weren't on board with all of that -- if you weren't hiding under your bed shaking when these cartoons were shown on the TV -- that meant that you were neither Tough nor Serious. Just as is true now, the Tough and Serious people were the ones who became frightened by the comic book villians. All of that led to reports like this from CNN:
U.S. commanders said that they have no intention of resting until the mission is complete and they have the top prize, Saddam -- the ace of spades in the notorious deck of cards.
Saddam's sons Qusay, the ace of clubs, and Uday, the ace of hearts, died in a raid in the northern Iraqi city of Mosul. . . .Key to tracking down Qusay and Uday was the capture of the ace of diamonds, No. 4 on the list, Abid Hamid Mahmud al-Tikriti, . . . Still unclear is the fate of No. 5 -- the king of spades -- Ali Hassan al-Majid, known as "Chemical Ali" . . . . U.S. military officials said they still want to capture or kill those who remain at large and put the entire deck of cards out of business.
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Radiofreeeuropa
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Candida6 months ago
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It never ceases to amaze me how good they are at focusing on trivial side issues instead of the heart of the matter. The closing of Guantanamo has been very successfully sidetracked to a debate of where the terrorists should be held, while completely ignoring how they are being treated.
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Few people raise the issue that the problem with Guantanamo is not that it's located on the Cuban island but that the US has attempted to place the prisoners outside all laws. It makes little difference whether they are kept outside the law within the US, in Guantanamo or on the South Pole, the fact remains that they are excluded from due process and may be kept indefinitely without conviction.
Whether Guantanamo is closed or not is not the real issue; whether the prisoner are protected by the laws of some jurisdiction is. -
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mark-stevens6 months ago
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As children of the 60's, we had a saying "what if we had a war and no one came". Now that we are adults, we have put are child like ways to bed, and going to war is as easy as going to the local bar and asking for a brew!
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About the media spoon feeding... How many heard about the Seattle bar hosting the Hot For Teacher night hosted by Mary Kay Laterno. That woman that spent seven years in jail for dating her 12 year old student.
How many heard about the Mexican that had an 18 year old woman slave that he bought in Mexico for $2,000 USD. That he had owned her for two and a half years up here in Washington State
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Goppy6 months ago
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Excellent point.
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How fearful IS The Modern Republican?
They are SO fearful, that rank and file Republicans think that terrorists housed in the SUPER MAX of all SUPER MAX prisons keeps them awake at night.
Of course, I don't blame them - they've been manipulated by those seeking power.
After all, Generating Fear is a long standing tradition of the Republican party ... not that Democrats don't do the same ... it's just that ... historically ... Republicans are far more successful generating fear among their base of support.
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rimbaud6 months ago
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Can you imagine what would happen if these savvy terrorists start proselytizing to the know-nothing psychopaths in our prisons! They will graduate tons more of the home-grown style of terrorists that were lead around by the nose, by the FBI, in New York.
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Radiofreeeuropa6 months ago
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What does any "terror" group wish to accomplish? They are certainly not capable of fighting the U.S. in a military sense, yet they are quite successful if they are catalysts in the process of a nation turning itself into something it wasn't. They are successful when a nation turns to acts of desperation, torture, or questionable motives.
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They are successful when a nation destroys it's own economy, self interests, and image in the world out of fear.
What does "terror" mean? It means being afraid.
Who is spreading terror here? Who is making terrorists remarkably successful? Hint- It isn't a tall bearded guy on a dialysis machine in a cave. -
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simonsez6 months ago
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Progressive6 months ago
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FTA:
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On June 12, 2008, the Supreme Court issued its opinion in Boumediene v. Bush, holding that detainees held at GTMO have the constitutional privilege of habeas corpus and that section 7 of the MCA—which stripped the courts’ jurisdiction to hear habeas claims from detainees—was unconstitutional . . . . -
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hyperbola6 months ago
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Well simon, you have an awfully low opinion of American democracy. Spain showed us the way. They arrested all of those involved in the Madrid bombing in short order and put them all on trial in open court (the entire proceedings were broadcast on national television) before jailing them. A few who were not implicated by any evidence were released.
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Given that 500 Gitmo prisoners have already been released because there was never any indication of involvement in terrorism and that of the 250 remaining there is only ANY evidence of involvement in terrorism by about 20, you seem more afraid of myths than anything else. -
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mesodude6 months ago
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"My ONLY concern has been that once the detainees are on American soil, then they should be protected by the Constitution and the laws of American justice."
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--But why? Did someone tell you that Manson, Sirhan Sirhan, the Unabomber Scott Peterson and others are secretly living large in their tiny cells and solitary confinement?
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StevieGee6 months ago
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It's actually pretty simple. They need some sort of trial. It could be a commission, tribunal, whatever. If found guilty of a crime, Leavenworth general population. If not, deportation to wherever we found them. Of course, the guilty will have to face deportation also upon completion of their sentences.
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simonsez6 months ago
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Endoscopy6 months ago
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I have never understood the reason to have a trial for prisoners of war. Calling them by other names does not change that issue. They were enemy combatants taken in a war zone. Enemy there are terrorists. You looney tunes liberals ranting about their rights amaze me. You call them by another name and rant about how mistreated they are. Alligator tears over people who would be willing to strap on a bomb and kill people.
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vidman046 months ago
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Solution: Instruct our soldiers to take no prisoners. Shoot them all on sight. To do otherwise is to confound and confuse liberals. Go by the old axiom "Kill 'em all, Let God sort them out"..... then we can all sit down with our enemies, join hands and sing Kumba-Ya.....
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Radiofreeeuropa6 months ago
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Why would you try to suggest that the only alternative to not having any clue what to do with detainees would be to murder them? That is really bizarre. The majority of these detainees were NOT picked up on a battlefield, but turned in for cash by their neighbors. There is little or no evidence against them. Keep watching fox and listening to the radio ooze...they will feed your fears.
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reallypsst6 months ago
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People will always be divided by rule of law and action of conflict,the question is can we ensure the safety of all by allowing the gitmo detainees to infect the rest of our inmates.We have all seen the problems with gangs and their ideology while incarcerated,they become stronger by interaction with others with a single idea that unity is their strength.Isolation seemed right at the time,if it were not for the issue of torture would we be trying to close gitmo !
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Radiofreeeuropa6 months ago
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I think if they are found guilty of ? whatever they supposedly did, that is super duper double dog secret...so secret no one knows what the charges are (part of the problem)...then they would be in high security prisons which don't really allow socializing...are you concerned they might convince the guards?
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mesodude6 months ago
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"People will always be divided by rule of law and action of conflict,the question is can we ensure the safety of all by allowing the gitmo detainees to infect the rest of our inmates."
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--Not that I think you actually care what happens to prisoners but when has that occurred? Exactly... your fears aren't based on any reality.
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frctm56 months ago
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This is pretty amusing. These men aren't superhuman and they are not going to be put up at the Ritz. Get a back bone for Christ sakes!!!! We might as well call Osama Bin Laden and tell him he won. America is now permanently afraid of a handful of Muslims even if they are under lock and key. Their outnumbered 300 million to 200 and we can't handle it. God how embarrassing.
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Icantwait6 months ago
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My Fellow Americans: Trial or No Trial? That is the question. Trials cost money and since we can't borrow any more from China, I say no trials. Send them back to their own Countries but since their own Countries fear them and don't want them back, I say don't do that. Make condos out of Gitmo, letting them pay for their keep, well, since they are just unpaid terrorist I doubt if they can afford to own a Condo on the Beach, I say no Condos. What would Saddam have done? Have them dig a big trench line them up and shoot them and just pay one Contractor to bulldoze them in and cover it up, I say sounds good to me. What would Hitler have done? Close all the Windows and Doors and send in the Gas, then Burn the Bodies, I say that sounds good too. What would the Liberals do? Certainly no Trails, Let them move into their Neighborhoods, give Them Welfare Checks and Food Stamps, Supply Them with all the Bomb Making Materials They need, Give Them Green Cards, Make Them Automatic Citizens, Give Them Permission to Blow Up any Conservative or Republican They don't like and Throw a White House Party on Wednesday to Celebrate it in Style. I really don't like that idea either. What do you people Think? The Real American
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