Obama outsourcing terrorist interrogations to foreign intel services. »
Posted By pc25 5 months, 2 weeks ago in NewsThe United States is now relying heavily on foreign intelligence services to capture, interrogate and detain all but the highest-level terrorist suspects seized outside the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan, according to current and former American government officials…
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pc255 months, 2 weeks ago
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the complete NYT article is here
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http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/24/world/24intel.ht...
WASHINGTON — The United States is now relying heavily on foreign intelligence services to capture, interrogate and detain all but the highest-level terrorist suspects seized outside the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan, according to current and former American government officials.
The change represents a significant loosening of the reins for the United States, which has worked closely with allies to combat violent extremism since the 9/11 attacks but is now pushing that cooperation to new limits.-
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tchef5 months, 2 weeks ago
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I think that the operative words in this statement are "outside the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan". These are places that we have no jurisdiction. We can't just go into other countries legally and capture citizens. How long would we tolerate other countries doing that here? Not to mention if the persons in question are wanted in the country for crimes committed there it's not too likely that they will be released to our custody.
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Dionys5 months, 2 weeks ago
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"The United States is now relying heavily on foreign intelligence services to capture, interrogate and detain all but the highest-level terrorist suspects seized outside the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan, according to current and former American government officials…"
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Yes. I know you love to attack Obama and ignore history and I'm sorry to ruin your little circle jerk, but Bush outsourced torture and interrogation to outside foreign intelligence services as well. All the time. Try reading. -
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pc255 months, 2 weeks ago
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FTA
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A clever move in how it kills two birds with stone, avoiding further headaches for Obama over how to dispose of terrorists in U.S. custody while leaving jihadis in the possession of people willing and able to go the Mancow route for emergency information if need be. But, er, how is this significantly different from rendition? The only difference that I can see is that instead of grabbing these people ourselves and handing them over to Jordanian or Pakistani intel for interrogation, we’re leading their guys to the suspects and letting them take it from there.-
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kobzikov5 months, 2 weeks ago
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"But, er, how is this significantly different from rendition?"
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I know it might be difficult to figure out how "apprehension and extrajudicial transfer of a person from one state to another" is different from apprehension and NO transfer of a person within a state BY the state, but if you guys put your collective minds to it, then I believe you can do it.
Also I don't think I'll be taking any lectures about hypocrisy from those who can go on for hours about how waterboarding is not torture, when they don't give a flying fig when US actually facilitates torture.
When you guys will figure out that not only is torture wrong, but is a crime according to both US and international law then I will listen to what you have to say on the matter and your criticisms of how ACLU, Human Rights Watch, and other activists aren't making enough of a peep when combating the repugnant practices. -
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GLee5 months, 2 weeks ago
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Exactly what I expected. On this standpoint I am rather proud of the President. America must be kept safe at all costs. Too bad his liberal friends had to find out he is cheating them but as far as I'm concerned, he is showing some sort of 'backbone' in this regard. Now if we can get him to stop spending soooo much dang money and wanting to socialize a free America??
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pc255 months, 2 weeks ago
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Obama continuing BUSH Rendition policy
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http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2009/05/none...
Apparently this is "rendition-lite" since the original arrest is made by the foreigners.
Human rights advocates say that relying on foreign governments to hold and question terrorist suspects could carry significant risks. It could increase the potential for abuse at the hands of foreign interrogators and could also yield bad intelligence, they say.
Yeah, yeah, now its our job to capture, hold, and treat politely every bad guy in the world. I assume that intelligence professionals are also unhappy that they are not in control of the interrogations; that is one reason we scaled back renditions and adopted the enhanced interrogation program in 2002.
A bit more:
Leon E. Panetta, the director of the C.I.A., said in February that the agency might continue its program of extraordinary rendition, in which captured terrorism suspects are transferred to other countries without extradition proceedings.
He said the C.I.A. would be likely to continue to transfer detainees from their place of capture to other countries, either their home countries or nations that intended to bring charges against them.
As a safeguard against torture, Mr. Panetta said, the United States would rely on diplomatic assurances of good treatment. The Bush administration sought the same assurances, which critics say are ineffective.-
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aceofspades15 months, 2 weeks ago
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OH pc - how can you believe this? After all it was published in that nasty liberal commie, left wing rag - The New York Times?
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By posting this are you trying to concede that the liberal media is telling the truth sometimes? Like when you agree with it? -
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donald515 months, 2 weeks ago
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Rendition-lite is hardly the Bush policy of sending CIA operatives into Italy to catch a guy for which the Italians now have a legal suit agaisnt the Bushies!
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And, under the Bushies there was no limit to the torture they condoned in others as evidenced by the torture memos - if it doesn't jeopardize life, its not torture!
Finally, Barack will use all the capabilites of government to compliment eachother diplomatic, secret services and military.... where Dumya's foreign policy was condemn from afar then send in the troops! Plus Barack has a lot more competent people working for him (Good job, Brownie). This overall effort will better insure far less abuse than what happened under the Bushies! Heck, even Canada told their diplomats during the Bush years to be careful as the US tortures!!!!!!
Just like Fox news to give a misleading lead-in or title unsupported by the facts and site a right wing blog that even goes so far as to use the terminology of "the ONe"!
You are really an un-American pig for the dissension you try to sow!
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icono15 months, 2 weeks ago
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I wonder how the ACLU and others will fare against the ex Warsaw pact nations that do some very interesting 'throw-back' renditions of a few old time favorites, like water-boarding and walling, in the 'interrogation' world.
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However this 'loop-hole' has been in the works for some time because the Bush Admin anticipated the public's backlash to GITMO several years before it became a hot button issue for the DNC and MSN. It would appear that OBama is more than willing to continue on with that plan. It makes him look like the 'Prince of Peace'(good for pr ratings) while at the same time maintaining a pre-established 'status quo' worked out by Bush and Company for dealing with 'enemy combatants'.
'Change you can believe in'? -
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k9kssr5 months, 2 weeks ago
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Probably what these other countries do during interrogations makes waterboarding look like a day lazing around the pool. But, look on the bright side, now that we are using "rendition lite" and letting someone else do the dirty work, the world is gonna respect us and love us to death.
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pc25Comment removed: Spam
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pc255 months, 2 weeks ago
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now that we are using "rendition lite" and letting someone else do the dirty work
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this has gained momentum under the Obama administration and they are vigorously pursuing it. This is just the blatant hypocrisy of the Democrats. Waterboarding is not torture if you obtain a FISA like torture warrant, and go before a torture court and a torture judge as Alan Derschowitz proposed.
http://edition.cnn.com/2003/LAW/03/03/cnna.Dershow... -
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pc255 months, 2 weeks ago
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and one more article by him
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http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.ht...
hypocrisy plain and simple.......... -
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pc255 months, 2 weeks ago
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Leon E. Panetta, the director of the C.I.A., said in February that the agency might continue its program of extraordinary rendition, in which captured terrorism suspects are transferred to other countries without extradition proceedings.
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http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/18/us/politics/18po...
Obama’s War on Terror May Resemble Bush’s in Some AreasObama’s War on Terror May Resemble Bush’s in Some Areas
WASHINGTON — Even as it pulls back from harsh interrogations and other sharply debated aspects of George W. Bush’s “war on terrorism,” the Obama administration is quietly signaling continued support for other major elements of its predecessor’s approach to fighting Al Qaeda.
In little-noticed confirmation testimony recently, Obama nominees endorsed continuing the C.I.A.’s program of transferring prisoners to other countries without legal rights, and indefinitely detaining terrorism suspects without trials even if they were arrested far from a war zone.
such BS artists the DEMS............
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nostalgia5 months, 2 weeks ago
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"In addition, Pakistan’s intelligence and security services captured a Saudi suspect and a Yemeni suspect this year with the help of American intelligence and logistical support, Pakistani officials said. The two are the highest-ranking Qaeda operatives captured since President Obama took office, but they are still being held by Pakistan, which has shared information from their interrogations with the United States, the official said."
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http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2009/05/none...
We have some interesting "allies" don't we?
The Pakistan intelligence service probably thinks waterboarding is child's play -
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lloydm655 months, 2 weeks ago
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I believe you do what you have to do.Right now Obama is starting to sweat.Every day that passes is a step forward,Bush,and the past are fadeing,no more blame games.When we are attacked again he maybe the stupid president reading a stupid book to a bunch of stupid children.
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donald515 months, 2 weeks ago
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At least he is doing something, and did more work before taking office than Dumya did in a year!
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Clinton, Berger & Clark all gave the Bush adminstration the top priority of Al Qaeda, but Dumya was too busy setting a record for being on vacation, then finally ignored a the brief before 911 titled "OBL Determined to Attack inside the uSA" that mentioned the use of planes.
So, one of the most inept presidents in history has been replaced by one of hte most industrious who is working his tail off to protect America with more American values than Dumya ever had!
Dumya, the fool president who didn't want the 911 Commission, than disbanded it as promptly as possible to stop getting all those Fs and Ds for not protecting America! Dumya the fool who opened pandora's box in Iraq that his dad never dared! Funny how Cheney again forgot about the Anthrax attacks the other day too!
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CRYMTYPHON5 months, 2 weeks ago
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Hi guys!
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"...according to current and former American government officials…"
Uh huh.
What officials?
What were their names? Their positions?
Were they official spokesmen?
Secret leakers?
Who is the writer ALLAPUNDIT?
Did he do the interviews?
I noticed the tiny article segued into a sorta-quote by Mr. Panneta; were we to accidentaly assume he was the source?
These are not idle questions.
In point of fact, after death you will be summoned
before a Very Big Angel;
- who will ask you these very same questions.
My advice: work on the answers now .-
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CRYMTYPHON5 months, 2 weeks ago
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Ouch!
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I just got slapped by the Very Big Angel.
He points out that this thread's 'article' was just a sleazy brief of a real article from the New York Times.
Pc25 even put the link in one of his comments which I was going to read
maybe someday but probably not.
The article is much more authoritative than the HotAir hot air,
naturaly, and is even signed.
But it dishonestly mixes what it observers,
about rendition patterns in the last two years,
with off-the-record arguments about what
to do after guantanamo closes,
- to make it seem that a secret new policy
has been created.
The HotAir puff and the Pc25 fun-guys
take that and pretend Obama is hiring out
American torturing to 3rd world countries;
sort of like we do auto-parts.
They liked the idea.
The Very Big Angel , - did not.
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Klarissa5 months, 2 weeks ago
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http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/24/world/24intel.ht...
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U.S. Relies More on Aid of Allies in Terror Cases
By ERIC SCHMITT and MARK MAZZETTI
Published: May 23, 2009
WASHINGTON — The United States is now relying heavily on foreign intelligence services to capture, interrogate and detain all but the highest-level terrorist suspects seized outside the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan, according to current and former American government officials.
American officials say that in the last years of the Bush administration and now on Mr. Obama’s watch, the balance has shifted toward leaving all but the most high-level terrorist suspects in foreign rather than American custody.
The United States has repatriated hundreds of detainees held at prisons in Cuba, Iraq and Afghanistan, but the current approach is different because it seeks to keep the prisoners out of American custody altogether. -
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Wolfie20075 months, 2 weeks ago
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Obama is a cowardly weasel, he sends his dirty work to others just like Clinton. Weasel and rats first cousins to liberal progressive democrat left leaning politicians. Washington needs an exterminator ins 2010 and maybe a Pied Piper to lead the rest of the rats and weasels out of town in 2012.
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donald515 months, 2 weeks ago
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No proof of that in these articles Wolf... but Panetta saying they will better pressure overseas intel agencies to stay within the law... while Dumya broke the law and could have cared less!
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The real weasel are un-American pigs like you who lie and exagerate to cover the law breaking of the idiot Bush and his neocons! No wonder you pukes look at all the Watergate, Iran Contra, and Plamegate convicted fellons as heros! -
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CRYMTYPHON5 months, 2 weeks ago
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It's 2012; town square America.
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The mayor nodds to the piper;
and the piper begins to play.
It's an old CCR song; "Fortunate Son",
and the bitter, beautiful notes sweep through the hiding places of the town.
calling out every flea-bitten vermin.
A rat and a weasel stagger out from hiding;
it's McConnel and Cornyn,
and they dance unwillingly to the music.
The mayor boots them both into the river.
The piper shakes his flute, puzzled.
"Actualy, the rats haven't been bad in town since 2010,"
explains the Mayor. "That was 2 bucks a rat I'll write you a check".
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donald515 months, 2 weeks ago
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Title Misleading as usual from PC!
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Outsourcing is when Dumya hired CACI, retired military Military Intelligence officers to go to Abu Ghraib to show teh young soldiers how to do it! Google CACI and Abu Ghraib adn you will see how many were disciplined from CACI! Then there was the contractor with no interrogation experience we learned about last week that actually took over from the CIA to waterboard!
Better cooperation between intel agencies worldwide sounds like a good step to getting Al Qaeda, but sure isn't the "outsourcing" which we all came to know too well under Dumya! -
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lloydm655 months, 2 weeks ago
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Donald51:Your right Obama' done a lot.I just hope he might be kidnapped,and held until we can get back on our feet.Another hundred days,like the last hundred ships,and planes will arive for the auction as we sell America out from under We The People.As we turn out the lights,I just want to say it's been a hell of a ride, and I've enjoyed every mile,and every minute in my short seventy five years.
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donald515 months, 2 weeks ago
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Wow Lloyd, I'm starting to feel sorry for you and your delusions of what might be, especially after you obviously supported one of the worst presidents in history who supported outsourcing although his '01 State of the Union cued on jobs.... well, he failed at everything else: 2 wars, getting OBL, letting 911 happen, Katrina, the Port deal, the Meirs nomination, war criminal torture, eavesdropping on Americans, Gitmo, Abu Ghraib, ruining our economy (the worst since the repugs gave us the Great Depression).
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Thanks for continually showing your total un-Amerivan nature - you are good at it, and I do pity you!
Seventy years of fear-mongering sure has gotten to you!
"your right" versus "You're right" - do you know the difference?
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