Guantanamo Bay Detainees site should be Open or Closed: What you want? »
Posted By WikiMap 5 months, 4 weeks ago in NewsWe need to keep the Guantanamo Bay detainees site open. The Senate, in a rare flash of wisdom, told Mr. Obama that he will not get the money. 80 millions of dollars are needed to close Gitmo and transfer the prisoners to the US.
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Charlson5 months, 4 weeks ago
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PatrioticAmerican5 months, 4 weeks ago
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nostalgia5 months, 4 weeks ago
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The ACLU of Colorado disagrees with you
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ACLU of Colorado executive director Cathryn Hazouri spoke to the Colorado Independent
Hazouri says the conditions at Supermax won’t be an improvement for terror suspects
While a transfer to the Supermax facility will indisputably bring the detainees under the protection of the United States justice system, overall their living conditions will not improve.
This prison is the most secure federal prison in the nation. Most individuals are kept in solitary confinement for at least 23 hours each day. They live in a 7×12 ft room with walls and furniture built almost entirely out of concrete. The single free hour is spent exercising alone in a separate concrete chamber.
.” To release these individuals from Guantánamo Bay, only to send them to the toughest prison in the country could well be considered a move “out of the frying pan into the fire.” -
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Klarissa5 months, 4 weeks ago
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donald515 months, 4 weeks ago
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You got it Charlson,
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If the Bushies leadership would have insured that criminal documentation was obtained when these detainees were arrested, and not tortured them, then we could have already convicted them, if they were guilty in the first place. Dumya failed at everything and this is one we have to correct!
A prison created outside the US is no excuse not to have American law apply there. This is how the rapists of 2 dozen women raped in the green zone by fellow contractors also escaped justice under the Bushies. And why KBR can install faulty wiring in showers that kill 19 US servicemen in Iraq and get away with it!
Are we a nation of laws or not?
Let us be once again be the former democratic beacon on the hill for the world! Barack has the rest of the year to work out the details... and will!
Dumya was right on one thing, the war on terror is a war of ideology, so don't give away any more high moral ground to the terrorists and get back that which Dumya gave away!!
Have some balls America to be truly American! The harder right - something Dumya always avoided! -
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quackpot5 months, 4 weeks ago
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Holding people in prison for years without a trial is JUST PLAIN WRONG, be it in the U.S.A. or in Gitmo.
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To have the CIA plead that they can not possibly offer a trial to the accused is idiotic when every town in the U.S.A., be it large or small, has already faced and dealt with the issue of protecting informants. -
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peterwoohoo5 months, 4 weeks ago
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Keep the prison open forever!! You libs are the cowards!!
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You guys continue to goo up the American judicial system with more scum. Just more hard work for our prison guards & more taxpayers money for the trial lawyers..Already 25% of the prisoners are illegals. If you like the terrorists so much invite them in YOUR life.
Let them live with your family, baby sit your kids, go to your schools & churches,et cetera. You don't get it! Their home country doesn't want them back either. They are military combatants, not US citizens. The farther, the better. We've-
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Charlson5 months, 4 weeks ago
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Liberals cowards? Who are you trying to fool? It's you pseudo-cons who are so afraid, afraid of imprisoning terrorists in the US. And you're ignorant to boot. An ignorant cowardly woohoo. As if the suspects (and that's what they are until convicted of a crime) would be released in our communities.
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jordan115 months, 4 weeks ago
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An absolutely ludicrous rationale. Are you aware we had concentration camps in this country for German prisoners in WW11? Are you aware that we are a nation of LAWS, that were once respected by the world?
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Now listen up! No one advocates releasing those men into our society. That would be a filthy LIE propagated by fear mongers, and aimed at the ignorant. And the fact that you spew their nonsense speaks to you lack of intelligence on that regard.
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jordan115 months, 4 weeks ago
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I don't have a problem with it. We already have 'terrorists' imprisoned in this country, & I've heard no one complain in the states thry're incarcerated in. Stop being such a whiney baby. You don't trust our prison system? Then stay under your bed.
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HMMaceComment removed: Spammer, Hard Banned14 Replies
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jordan115 months, 4 weeks ago
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That's what happens when you base your decisions on your emotions>>>>>
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Yep, like being so sceeeered of the terrrrists you think torture, and incarcerating people for years without evidence is okey dokey. Can't get much more "knee jerk" than that. Do you know how many were kept for YEARS, and then released cause there was NOTHING to link them to terrorists??? No? GO LOOK IT UP!
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Wolfie20075 months, 4 weeks ago
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The only reason to close Gitmo is when it's no longer needed to house terrorist. Just because the liberal progressives have this wild hair up their butts insisting it be closed is the best reason to keep it open because we all should have learned by now that whatever the liberal progressives want is the wrong thing to do, ever!
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Gransater5 months, 4 weeks ago
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Peter
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Keep the prison open forever.......
So you feel it is moraly right to keep these prisoners looked away forever, presumably untill they die, without any ability to present their case. They have been locked up on somebodys word that they are the bad guy. Doesn't that go against one of the fundamental principles of our judicial beliefs, that you are innocent untill proven guilty, in a court of law? If we abandon those principles, are we then any better than the lynch parties of past times? Does it not mean that we haven't advanced one bit, intellectually, in all these years?
You libs are cowards..........
Bull..... It is those of you who oppose trying to find out the real truth about these people who are the cowards. You fear finding out we may have commited a wrong, and having to admit so. If you are so convinced they are guilty, why are you so afraid of that fact comming to light?
You guys just........ You will allways have scum around. Live with it. You can't change reality.
Just more hard work...... Do you really believe that it is less hard work for the guards, and cheaper, financially to keep these individuals in Guantanamo? I submit you are wrong on both those statements.
Allready 25%........... I don't think you could classify these individuals as illegals. Most of them were brought here against their will, so that statement is completely erroneous.
If you love them....... As a matter of fact we all did invite them here, by proxy, via elections some time ago, by electing officials representing us, who took these steps, in our name. Remember, you, I, we all are a reflection of our elected officials. I would not choosee the word "invite", but yes we all had a say in that fact.
Let them live ...... I would say you are showing a total lack of maturity by that statement. If you really believe what you said, you eigther lack the ability of mature reasoning, or you are separated mentaly from the realities of todays society, and how it works.
We are supposed to be the world leader. Part of that earned image includes being just and moral. Keeping people locked up forever, without a proper recourse for true justice, is neighter just or moral, however distasteful the task may be, in dealing with it. Its time to pay the piper, and deal with a problem that tarnishes us, not only in the eyes ofthe world, but should embarass the heck out of anyone that truly believes we are a great nation of moral and christian values. -
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lloydm655 months, 4 weeks ago
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The American prison guard needs to be fore warned when a Muslim prisoner attacks you, stand by,you will most likely be reprimanded,reassign,or fired.It's a must they will be seen by the left wing loonies as our guest,any discomfort,or anxious moments will turn our news organisations up side down.They have supported them in Gitmo ,and they will nurture them here
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Klarissa5 months, 4 weeks ago
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I think it absurd to spend millions of dollars to move the gitmo unreleasable inmates to the US just to --
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Improve our image in the world??
Whether in prison in gitmo or in the continental US they are still in prison.
Presently they have a LOT more freedom than they would if put into one of our high security prisons.
The first thing that would happen, the ACLU and others would scream because they hadn't been convicted of anything therefore could not be held in isolation.
This is just a scheme to eventually force the release of these evil people to do more harm to non-muslims.-
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Gransater5 months, 4 weeks ago
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You are missing the point. Keeping them locked up isn't the problem. The problem is keeping them locked up WITHOUT a proper trial, justifying their incarceration.
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As to improving our image, how about improving our image to ourselves. If we are unable to justify holding these persons in jail, doesn't that mean that we, the moral and christian guiding light to the world, have lost that very ability, and have instead sunk down to the level of that which we say we are figthing against. How can we be the land of the free, and hold people we brought to our country against their will, and continue holding against their will, on the justification of someones word, who remains invisible in the background. Also, make no mistake, Guantanamo IS US soil, and by that fact the prisioners are de facto allready on US soil, contrary to everyone's paranoia about bringing them to the US. They are allready here.
Presently.......... Is that statement suposed to make you feel good about their situation? How about from their point of view? Don't you think a trial, with definite and known future would be preferable, than just sitting somewhere without knowing what's next. Give them a trial. If they are guilty, then put them where they belong, even if it's a maximum security cell.
The first thing................. and what is this discussion about, if not to do the right thing?
This is just............... this is scheme allright. It's a scheme to do whats moral and christian, namely to justify holding these individuals. Untill we do, Gitmo is the American version of the Gulag, and presumably all of us have strong feelings against that place.
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automan9095 months, 4 weeks ago
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If we let the terrorists from Gitmo into America they will then be afforded Constitutional rights.
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That's why we are using Gitmo.
The ACLU will then defend them on the grounds that they did not have a speedy trial and they will be set free.
You libs aren't very smart, are you?
Keep theme there until they die of old age. -
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Klarissa5 months, 4 weeks ago
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Alright, let's really put the truth out here:
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Liberals and anti-gitmo people,
Please tell us EXACTLY what Obama should do with these prisoners.
Free them into the US?
Send them to the country of their birth?
Send them to the country where they were captured?
Try them under the laws of the country where they were captured?
Try them under the laws of the country of their citizenship?
Try them in the US as illegal aliens?
Try them in the US as if they were common criminals who have violated US law.
Try them for murder?
Try them for participating in combat in a way that violated the Geneva convention of dress and identification.
And perhaps more options.
Time to quit pontificating, be real for a change. -
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Gransater5 months, 4 weeks ago
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Actually Klarissa, you tell us what law was used to bring them here and put in Gitmo under. Once we have an understanding of that, then we can proceed. Its one thing to call them Enemy Combatant, I'm sure most, if not all of them are/were. We still have to justify their incarceration. Once we know what legal process was used towards that end, then we should use that same process, and the laws within it for the actual due process of court proceedings. If it turns out that there weren't any legal ground to do what was done, then they should be released back to where they were in essence kidnaped from.
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Don't raise your hackles now, I, and probably most of the country realises that doing so isn't in the best interest of the free world. It is however following certain guidelines, moral and otherwise, that makes us part of the free world. It's what's sets us apart from the opposite, even in the hard decisions, those that we know will come back and haunt us in the future. It's what we call the right thing to do.
As I'm keep repeating, if we don't do what's right, we aren't any better than those we say we better than. We sink to their level, and from there our guiding light to us and the world gets obscured by the walls on the ravine of lies and actions we undertake, as a nation.-
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Klarissa5 months, 4 weeks ago
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"Actually Klarissa, you tell us what law was used to bring them here and put in Gitmo under. Once we have an understanding of that, then we can proceed."
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What law would you suggest? You must have something in mind?
"As I'm keep repeating, if we don't do what's right,"
Whose right(s)
Those of American Military, American citizens, or those fighting our troops ignoring the requirements of uniform and identification. How many of those captured had dogtags?????
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Calypso5615 months, 4 weeks ago
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Keep them at Gitmo, and use whatever means necessary to get information out of them, YES!! That means torture. Are terrorists 'humane' with our soldiers? NO!!! They cut their heads off and drag their naked bodies through the streets as if they were a trophy or something. DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO GET THE INFORMATION FROM THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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cowboygrandpa5 months, 4 weeks ago
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Having read all the comments and the article. I am amazed at the almost total split by party thinking. LOL
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What a surprise.
Whiny,scared people want to keep Gitmo open so they will feel protected, although they couch it with patriotic flair.
Those who think we can treat these political prisoners fairly want it closed down, and want the prisoners to be treated with the same rights as we have.
Now I don't know if these people are guilty or not, neither do most of you I would guess.
What I do know is that to detain people without treating them as human beings created by God with the same rights as God gave us is wrong !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We decry the torture and acts of terrorism that we accuse these people of. Yet we do the same thing and seek to be seen as a country of laws and morals ???
I love my country. but question its leaders.
We are headed down the path to hell in a hand basket when we go against God's ways. And the last 40 years we have accelerated from walking down that path to running at full speed.
Do ya wonder why all this hatred is focused on us, well stop and look at the arrogant posts from the extreme right wing nuts.
We have allowed our country to become hated because we wanted, luxury instead of honesty, pleasure instead of work, wealth while we impoverished other nations.
Then we had the arrogance to say we deserve it and they don't, because we believe in God. What a freaking joke !!!!!!!
Close Gitmo ??? It should have never been opened in the first place.
How do ya close Pandora's box once you have opened it ??? I asked this years ago and was never answered. Does anyone know ???-
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flyonthewallzz5 months, 4 weeks ago
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_POW_camps_in_...
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"Prisoner-of-war camps in the United States during World War II.
In the United States, at the end of World War II there were 175 Branch Camps serving 511 Area Camps containing over 425,000 prisoners of war. The camps were located all over the US but were mostly in the South because of the expense of heating the barracks. Eventually, every state with the exception of Nevada, North Dakota, and Vermont had POW camps." -
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Klarissa5 months, 4 weeks ago
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flyonthewallzz5 months, 4 weeks ago
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http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/10/opinion/10kayein...
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Number of “high-value detainees” now at Guantánamo: 15
Approximate percentage of detainees found to have committed “hostile acts” against the United
States or coalition forces before detention: 53
Approximate number of countries of which detainees are citizens: 40
Most represented countries at Guantánamo: Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Yemen
Cost of building Guantánamo high-security detention facilities: about $54 million
Estimated annual cost of operating Guantánamo: $90 million to $118 million -
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flyonthewallzz5 months, 4 weeks ago
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http://havanajournal.com/politics/entry/julia-swei...
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Since the 1990s, the monthly “fence-line” talks have ensured safety for the people who work in and around Guantanamo’s air, land and maritime borders. Shortly after the United States began housing terrorism suspects at the base, Raul Castro even offered to send back any detainee who tried to escape into Cuban territory. But as allegations of torture emerged and Guantanamo’s symbolism went global, Cuba joined the world in excoriating the United States.-
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flyonthewallzz5 months, 4 weeks ago
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http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N17200921...
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HAVANA, Aug 17 (Reuters) - The United States pays Cuba $4,085 a year in rent for the controversial Guantanamo naval base, but Cuba has only once cashed a check in almost half a century and then only by mistake, Fidel Castro wrote in an essay published on Friday.
Castro's refusal to cash the checks to protest the "illegal" occupation has been long known. In a television interview years ago, he showed the checks stuffed into a desk drawer in his office. -
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flyonthewallzz5 months, 4 weeks ago
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http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/mariel-...
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In 1980, the Attorney General directed the Bureau of Prisons to provide detention space for
criminal and mentally ill Mariel Cubans who could not be safely detained in INS temporary
detention centers or at any of the resettlement camps established to process the Mariel Cubans. The majority of the Mariel Cubans in Bureau custody today are not eligible for repatriation under the agreement and will most likely remain in detention or be released under INS parole authority to the community or to a pre-release treatment facility.
Some 800-900 Cuban criminals were pushed into the United States by Fidel Castro in 1980 (as part of the Mariel Boatlift), and have been in detention ever since. Following their initial
detention, these criminals were granted immigration parole into the United States by the INS. While on immigration parole, each of them was convicted of, and sentenced for, violations of state or federal law ranging from attempted murder to trafficking in cocaine to petty theft. After they were released from their imprisonment for these offenses, their immigration parole was revoked on the basis of their convictions. The problem has been that Castro has refused to take them, notwithstanding a formal immigration agreement between the Castro regime and the Clinton Administration.
The United States has stated it will continue the embargo so long as the Cuban regime continues to refuse to move toward democratization and greater respect for human rights[1], hoping to see democratization that took place in Eastern Europe.
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lloydm655 months, 4 weeks ago
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Let's stop trying to cover Obama's a$$,he made made up all these scenarios on the campaign trial.If Bush,and gitmo are responsible for today's middle eastern less than human dregs,who ,and what was the cause for terrorism the years prior to gitmo.No this is just another straw man,the democrats never run out of them.Why do we take these freaks prisoners anyhow I thought Allah wanted them to die,whats he to do with all those virgins,their not getting any younger.
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donald515 months, 4 weeks ago
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lloyd, you're a fool as ever! Almost every anti-terror funding request to the Repug Congress by Clinton was denied. Clinton got the Trade Center basement bombers while Dumya finally said it didn't even matter if he got OBL.
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Clinton, Berger & Clarke told the Bushies that Al Qaeda was the top priority. Dumya was too busy setting a record for being on vacation and finally got the brief "OBL Determined to Attack Inside the USA" that mentioned the use of planes, and he ignored it. Dumya let 911 happen than even lied to get more fine Americans killed in Iraq for nothing!
OBL has said that Reagan doing nothing after the Marine Barracks bombing told him America was spineless and corrupt!
You right wingers sure are un-American, unscrupled, unconscionable idiots; but greedy bigotted idiots for sure!
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Klarissa5 months, 4 weeks ago
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The Senate voted 90-6 to withhold funding to close Guantanamo.
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Moreover, the wording of the resolution prevents funds intended for other purposes to be used for such a purpose.
Republican Members of Congress joined with many Democrats to demand a plan from the president as to how to accomplish the closing of the Cuban detention facility. -
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flyonthewallzz5 months, 4 weeks ago
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http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119672508133812403...
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The judge saw things differently, ruling after trial that the refugees' indefinite detention violated the U.S. Constitution. "The Due Process Clause is phrased in universal terms, protecting any 'person,'" Judge Johnson wrote, contrasting it with rights, such as protection against unreasonable searches, that are granted only to "the people" -- roughly meaning those in the U.S. "If the Due Process Clause does not apply to the detainees at Guantanamo, Defendants would have discretion deliberately to starve or beat them [or] to deprive them of medical attention," the judge wrote in his decision.
Eight years later, after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, the George W. Bush White House began searching for a place to hold suspected terrorists rounded up in Afghanistan and Pakistan. To Judge Johnson's surprise, administration officials fastened on Guantanamo -- and asked the Justice Department if prisoners could be held there without judicial review. The answer in a December 2001 memo by Patrick Philbin and John Yoo of the Office of Legal Counsel: Yes, in all likelihood. As part of their analysis, Messrs. Philbin and Yoo noted that the Haitian case had been vacated and was thus irrelevant.
Judge Johnson, who has now taken senior status and hears cases on a limited basis, remained careful not to comment on the Guantanamo suit currently pending before the court. "I only know about that case from what I read in the papers," he told the Albany audience. He paused. "But from what I can tell, the government's making some of the same arguments they made to me." -
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peterwoohoo5 months, 4 weeks ago
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Gotta love it! The Libs...always being little Do-gooders. Always Captains without the ship. I could care less about the terrorists caught on the battlefield, When our troops confront them killem! You Libs worry about world reflection....get real. Let Obumya put his Chicago Mansion to good use. I'm sure if you contact him on his blackberry, his teleprompt would agree.
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donald515 months, 4 weeks ago
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peter, its not just libs, its abouty three quarters of America, Libs, dems and independants - the 78% of Americans who knew Dumya had the country going the wrong way!
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Sorry you right wing pukes have no respect for laws - you even look at your convicted fellons from Watergate, Iran Contra & Plamegate as heros!
You pukes are just scared to death you will lose some more heros, rightly, as they are declared war criminals to validate your absolute un-American lack of values, morals, a conscience and laws!
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