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Posted by: DebraJMSmith 7 months, 1 week ago
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DebraJMSmith7 months, 1 week ago
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Oh, David,
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Sure, I will tell you how the government involves people in a lie, when it recognizes homosexual "marriage" as real.
Homosexual "marriage," is a lie. So, because we are a government of the people and by the people, that involves us all in the lie.
Kay?
Debra...-
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wtagg7 months, 1 week ago
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So, secular civil law is only for some people, not all?
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Marriage is a secular civil agreement between two individuals. The church has no jurisdiction in the creation or dissolution of the contract. It only has the power to perform the ceremony. If the church decides not to perform the ceremony, that is the church's right to do so.
I have to assume that you are fully in support of choice concerning abortion and life because we are a government of the people and by the people.
Now, if you want to remove the word marriage from all civil ceremonies and consider it a completely religious term, that is fine with me. Call any contract between to individuals concerning cohabitation and the sharing of child-rearing and domestic responsibilities as a union. Frankly, I like that word better. Marriage still has that dominant/submissive connotation that doesn't really reflect the true sharing nature of a loving relationship.
I don't think you have explained why it is a lie?-
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DebraJMSmith7 months, 1 week ago
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wtagg7 months, 1 week ago
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You are speaking in a religious world. That is great. It has nothing to do with the secular, civil world of law, which is where the contract between two people occurs. A judge cares not if a marriage has been consummated. He/she will not ask for proof of said consummation. Where, in secular law, is it stated that a marriage has to be consummated?
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So, if a couple is married and is involved in a car crash sometime after the ceremony and one passes on, they were never married and the surviving spouse is entitled to nothing from the estate of the deceased? My guess is that you have not really thought through the argument, but if you can find support for your argument, please post it. I'd love to see what you based your argument on.
We allegedly live in a country where everyone is equal under the constitution. Your argument clearly points to inequality. The irony is that this very argument of equality is necessary for the anti-abortion argument that a fetus has rights.
So, please choose. Equality or inequality. Your problem is that you can only paint yourself into a corner with your current argument.
Again, the church has its right to not take part in the officiating of a marriage ceremony, if it so chooses. No one is disputing that. I think even those that are directly effected by the law would not choose to fight that. They (as all citizens of this country, no matter gender, race, sexual preference, religion,etc...) want equality under the law of the country.
As a conservative, that is what I want. As a conservative, I want the church to have the right to decide whether or not they want to perform a ceremony. As a conservative, I want the least governmental intrusion into the secular lives of the citizenry and the most efficient administration of said government. That means one law can be used to administer the secular civil requirements of marriage between two citizens. To suggest anything else is not conservative, by definition of the word.-
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wtagg7 months ago
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Again, where in secular civil law does it state that sexual consummation is require to make the contract binding?
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I know you will not be able to answer.
If the church wants to require it to recognize the marriage, that is fine for their believers. It has no bearing in secular civil law. The church is more than welcome to have its own definition for its own believers and just as the government shouldn't tell the church what to do and believe, the church has no place in telling the government what to do and believe.
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Beau78907 months, 1 week ago
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I don't know, Debra, that's a good question.
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How can anyone be so uneducated?
I know what "consummate" means, at least as defined in dictionaries. Do you?
From Merriam-Webster:
consummate
Pronunciation: \?kän(t)-s?-?m?t\
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): con·sum·mat·ed; con·sum·mat·ing
Date: 1530
transitive verb
1 a: finish, complete [consummate a business deal]
b: to make perfect
c: achieve
2: to make (marital union) complete by sexual intercourse [consummate a marriage]
intransitive verb: to become perfected
If you're thinking of telling me sexual intercourse involves both kinds of sexual organs, you might want to look that phrase up in your dictionary as well. Pay close attention to definition 2.
Are you going to tell me homosexuals don't have intercourse? Because I believe there are quite a few out here on Propeller who'd be willing to describe exactly how it's done.
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wtagg7 months, 1 week ago
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So, if a paraplegic marries someone from the opposite sex and cannot perform the traditional sexual act (let's keeps this in a purely church view world of consummation), the marriage is a lie?
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I have a feeling that you will not answer such questions because you have not thought this far down the logic path necessary to find a true answer.-
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david_nwpa7 months, 1 week ago
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