Obama Healthcare Proposals: Are you against it? »
Posted By WikiMap 5 months, 1 week ago in NewsThe May 11th demonstration put on by the Obama administration purported to save US consumers two trillion dollars in costs over the next decade. However, now the honeymoon is over. Not so, says the industry, hospitals and doctors.
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CHAM5 months, 1 week ago
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You can bet your derriere that the Insurance Companies are against Government Provided Health Care.
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Now just why would that be? Because they want us to have the best of care? You know better than that don't you.
Then there's the DumA's who think that "It's Socialized Medicine and that is bad". Pressed they won't be able to give you and honest answer, all they will do is repeat the mantra.
They don't realize that Medicare doesn't cover dental and vision care and has great limitations on what is payed. A person depending strictly on Medicare is in danger of dying from LACK of medical care.-
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Natureboy5 months, 1 week ago
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"You can bet your derriere that the Insurance Companies are against Government Provided Health Care."
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Agreed.
I have been a healthcare reform advocate for years. In fact, I was a whistleblower in the healthcare industry for roughly seven years. I am not enamored of Obama's "reform" plan, because it is largely reform in name only.
There is nothing like single payor. Administered in the same manner as Medicare, it eliminates not only the vast majority of administrative overhead on the payor end, by simplification of billing, collections, and receivables it results in significant savings for health providers as well.
The Obama plan is based on a contradiction - He doesn't want to go single payor because "healthcare is the sixth largest sector of our economy" but it is the sixth largest sector of our economy in part because of the insane waste and unrestrained profiteering. Thus, if he wants to implement meaningful reform, it will negatively impact the cash flow in the healthcare sector. Duh. If he wants to keep healthcare as profitable as it currently is, he cannot implement meaningful reforms which will reduce the waste and the unrestrained profiteering.
I say there's nothing like single payor, and what Obama proposes is nothing like single payor. It is much like the Clinton plan, a disfunctional proposal to fix the chicken coop without getting rid of the weasels.
Don't fall for the Obama plan. Demand real healthcare reform. Demand single payor universal health coverage for all Americans.
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Endoscopy5 months, 1 week ago
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At another annual $1 trillion deficit I want to know how we are going to pay for it. That was the number thrown around by Obama in a discussion. We already have a 1.8 trillion deficit this year anyway. Why do Democrats think money grows on trees? They yelled at the Bush deficit and justly so. Where did the concept that deficits are bad go.
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Normal deficits are bad if a Republican. Stupendous deficits are good if Democrat.
Liberals are hypocrites.-
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flyonthewallzz5 months, 1 week ago
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http://www.fms.treas.gov/mts/
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This is from the treasury department.
I figure you know, that the fiscal year begins Oct.1
(in millions)
Period.. Receipts.. Outlays.. Deficit/Surplus (-)
Oct-08.. 164,848.. 402,024.. 237,177
Nov-08.. 144,782.. 309,179.. 164,397
Dec-08.. 237,811.. 321,435.. 83,624
Jan-09.. 226,109.. 309,924.. 83,815
Feb-09.. 87,328.. 280,111.. 192,783
Mar-09.. 128,957.. 321,230.. 192,273
Apr-09.. 266,232.. 287,139.. 20,907
Totals.. 1,256,067.. 2,231,042.. 974,976
Bush average.. 193,388.. 335,641.. 142,253
Obama average.. 160,839.. 296,160.. 135,321
In Honesty: the monthly treasury reports leaves out some of the TARP spending that is included in this sheet which I accessed from the same page. With that aspect left out it Obama's spending then becomes greater than Bush's, but the deficit becomes less.
Endoscopy I do not think your argument is fair. The numbers are not out yet for May, but I am fairly confident that the deficit will be a more than $500 billion less than the $1.8 trillion you quoted. And I think it is fair to recognize that bush owns $570 billion of that deficit.
The drop in revenue is having a much greater effect on the deficit than spending.
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lloydm655 months, 1 week ago
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Cham:How about we eliminate the scummy insurance companies,and let the government take all this risk.Your driving home some night hit a slick spot on the road knock down a tree on private property.so now you have to call a automated answering service.They won't assign you an agent.With no insurance,no roof your going to call the same phone number after a storm.Lets not throw out the baby with the bath water.First lets take a page out of Hillary Care.Where you cannot pay for health care with your money.You must have a health policy.That means the people today who can afford health insurance must reprioritize their life style.Health care,or new monster truck,BMW,and many other priorties.You want to be careful what you ask for,you just might get it.
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Klarissa5 months, 1 week ago
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One more time:
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My husband and I are on medicare.
Medicare takes $1,156.80 out of EACH of our Social security checks each year,
and $276 out of EACH of checks for drugs.
On top of that we pay a total of almost $5,000 in insurance a year to cover what medicare does NOT cover.
There is NO family plan.
We are FORCED to take medicare or the supplemental insurance will not cover anything.
So, how much do you think "government" insurance would cost a family of 4??
And, most likely those who do not have insurance have larger families.
How much will it cost them?????
THINK before you jump to conclusions.-
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quackpot5 months, 1 week ago
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OK, here is a number for you, Klarissa.
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Health care costs in the U.S. are currently somewhat higher than 2.3 trillion. With 300 million people, that is about $8,000 per person.
Your $6,432 payment is about $1,500 LESS THAN the average payment. This is in spite of the fact that you are in the high risk population due to your age (you mention that you are on medicare).
Perhaps you can send some of the money you are saving on health to the Obama Campaign for Better Health Care. -
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flyonthewallzz5 months, 1 week ago
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$1,156.80 X 2 = $2313.60 Medicare
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....$276 X 24 = $6624 Drugs
...........+ $5000 supplemental insurance
...............$13937.60 / 2 = $6968.8 per year per person
$580 per month
$145 per week per person
Klarissa: I am just trying to understand here.
Is this what the numbers look like? -
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Beau78905 months, 1 week ago
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Klarissa, in addition to the numbers quackpot and flyonthewallzz gave you (which I've given you before) and that show you pay less for insurance than those covered under private plans, I just have to point out that all insurance premiums, public and private, take into account the average cost of claims over the entire pool that is insured.
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Medicare covers only people 65 or older, the disabled, and those with end-stage renal disease. That means it covers those most likely to file large claims. If everyone in the country were covered under the same policy, the pool of those insured would include several times the number ccovered by Medicare, who are also in better health, meaning the chance of them filing large claims is smaller.
This means premiums will be less per person under one public program that insures everyone than Medicare, which insures only high-risk candidates.
There are many other cost savings through administrative savings, elimination of the need to make a profit, and increased bargaining power for services for a larger group of insured.
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lloydm655 months, 1 week ago
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Klarissa:These people you speak of will in all likelyhood will not pay a thin dime.Remember the tax cuts,the forty million that pay no income tax,screamed bloody murder when they didn't get one.So our united socialist democratic party tried to refund their social securty contributions.So if one thinks these people are going to be billed,line up the koolade is being mixed as we speak.
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engineer5 months, 1 week ago
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A single payer health plan would be less expensive.
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1. People would no longer use emergency rooms as their primary care physician.
2. HMOs would no longer gouge the public letting their execs make obscene salaries while paying bonuses to deny procedures.
3. Pharmaceuticals would no longer be allowed to advertise prescription drugs which they gouge the public on. 40% of Big pharma's income is spent on advertising. Doctors are the only ones who know enough to make an informed evaluation. Don't forget when the patent runs out the majority go over-the-counter. The cost of development is made up in 6 months
Lawyers will be regulated to prevent these overblown lawsuits.
The US spends 14% of its GNP on Health care with 1 in 6 not having coverage. In those countries which have universal health care it is only 6% to 7% with 100% of its citizens covered and they all rank higher than we do in health care ranking. If we had the best health care in the US, which we don't, I would agree.
This plan is too little, but it's a start -
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teampdf5 months, 1 week ago
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Health care / insurance costs are absurd right now. Cost controls need to be put in place. A combination of govt. forced cost reductions and vouchers to allow people to obtain insurance / care may be the best way. A complete govt. run "universal care" system will be an absolut disaster. People will die waiting for a specialist and /or an appointment for surgery. That's a fact. People from countries (if they can afford it) come to the usa for operations / specialists all the time. Young people who rally behind a govt. plan are not extremely worried about health concerns yet ... you will when you get older & when medical stuff is vewry important ... then you will realize just how f'd you are.
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cleare5 months, 1 week ago
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people already wait for appointments for healthcare.
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on the other hand thousands of unnecessary c-sections are performed on pregnant women every year. almost a third of all births. for no reason other than that they are profitable.
sick.
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flyonthewallzz5 months, 1 week ago
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My thoughts (prayers) go out to you and your wife.
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I am at a loss for words, I may disagree with you politically, But I had to pause.....
For what it is worth..I know what you are saying.
"Hang in there"..my loneliness may not be as great as yours.. but I have to say that to myself a lot. -
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lloydm655 months, 1 week ago
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engineer: Now I know Obama can,and will take this country to socialism hell when his voters are okay with the him demanding that privately owned companies can do,or can't do.Already he is he's trying to get a consensus to set an age when the elderly will be cut off.Let me tell you how quick you can go from thirty five,to sixty five.Let me tell you it's a trip, but it doesn't last all that long.My wife died this year so if I die today,or in ayear or so,I,m ready,but I would hate to walk into my doctors office,or a hospital admitting station,and be ask to leave because I lived too long.
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bblankholm5 months, 1 week ago
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Single payer insurance is the only way to go. I am spending half of my income on health related costs - just for myself.
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It's not my fault I am sick - I have asthma and rheumatoid arthritis and the cost of the drugs for the arthritis are ASTRONOMICAL.
I am unemployed and dumped COBRA because of the expense, got insurance on my own and had to get insured through a high-risk pool, otherwise I would be screwed. I live in Minnesota and Gov. Pawlenty is cutting people off of state sponsored medical as we are in the hole for $4 billion.
I am sick of insurance companies telling me what drugs they will and wont pay for. I am not running to the doctor everytime there is something wrong. I have serious medical problems and my doctors tell me that I *have to* come in to see them of they wont refill my medication that I am dependant upon. Most countries have single payer medical plans. We need to stop letting our money go to the insurance companies, even though they say they are non-profit. (Bull!) -
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jordan115 months, 1 week ago
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Health care access should not be a for profit business. That speaks for itself. And I'm NOT speaking of the profit to DR's or hospitals or nurses, or any of the care providers. I'm speaking about the so called 'insurance' companies who put profit before the care of those they insure.
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Doesn't matter to me who runs it. Government, private non profit, or the man in the moon. As long as there is oversight (& I suggest some of that oversight be given to the private sector, as volunteers. God knows there are plenty of intelligent people retired with time on their hands). However it's done, it HAS to be done. -
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corky2575 months, 1 week ago
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It is one big mess we are living now and Obama isn't helping. Gets on tv and says we are broke and can't help poor people but he can travel all around the world,I would love to have just what he spends foolishly,then I think that money could go to help people that don't have the money to pay for themselves,surely you can't believe people are happy not being able to pay their own way.Get rid of some of that extra fat in Wash and by the way now he wants another czar,where is this money coming from?Obama is for Obama and the sooner we realize it the better off we will be,he should go back to Chicago with his crooks
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CHAM5 months, 1 week ago
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Certainly are some good comments on this. Nature Boy and Engineer are two who I can identify with. And when Klarissa identified her cost, one thing she forgot to mention was the co-pays and the Donut hole for drug Coverage.
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If you really need a lot of drugs that hole will bite you in the butt unless you have enough money that it doesn't really make any difference.
I take almost no drugs but do carry coverage because if I haven't then I might not be able to get coverage if I really need it.
MY wife is a different story. With the Insurance premiums and the co-pays, not covered, and the donut hole, our out of pocket costs last year was close to $17,000. Most retired people would have to make a choice between living and dying if they didn't have the means like we are lucky to have.
This country demands much of its citizens and treats the majority of those citizens like dirt. The Rich and Powerful don't have to worry, Uncle Sam is going to take care of them.
As an extreme example, during the Bush years, the American Oil companies raked in $642 Billion in subsidies during this time when they were making more profits than the accumulated years since oil was discovered. And their greed for ever increasing profits ( from obscene gas prices ) was a significant driver in the crash of the economy. -
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Quinnsmom5 months, 1 week ago
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The Obama health care reform is just another way to get citizens to depend on government. I would rather pay for my own healthcare with my own private insurance and be in control of my treatment. All the claims that health insurance is too expensive is a bunch of BS. If you are young (not a senior citizen) and don't make a good living, there are State plans available with rates based on sliding scales according to income. Not only that but instead of all these welfare recipients sitting on their butts collecting a check and spitting out babies complaining about health care costs why don't they get an education so they can get a job that provides health care coverage?
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I agree that seniors get the shaft in the medicare / medicaid forum. THAT should be addressed. If you let the government control socialized healthcare, before you know it, The government will decide whether your life is worth the cost of the treatment that they will provide. Obama wants everyone on the governments dole. Figure it out people!-
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jordan115 months, 1 week ago
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The Obama health care reform is just another way to get citizens to depend on government.>>>>>
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Pooling money for health insurance only makes sense. Someone has to manage it. Whom do you suggest? The insurance you pay for now is a pool. Your monthly payments would be useless if you needed to pay for an operation. But in a pool, the money is there to pay for your needs. Why? Because everyone doesn't need an operation at the same time.
The difference between pooling money through a for profit insurance company, or a non profit source, is profit. The private insurance company uses that pooled money first for profit, and second for your health care. This means if there is a lot of need for health care in the pool, someone will get shafted so the private company can have their profit.
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dxxy4u5 months, 1 week ago
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All you uninsured (a)ssholes are blogging all this dumb chit, goes to show you how unlearned you are. How can anyone speak against Universal Health? This take the treat out of being whipped out by a major illness. Some of you are beyond pity.
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truthfirst5 months, 1 week ago
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When are people going to realize that the government has never been able to run anything efficiently or economically! They were even able to distribute the TV converters properly which meant that they had to extend the date from converting from analog to digital. What makes you think that they can run the Health Care System? Can you imagine having to contact Barney Franks to see if you can get that medication that you need. The countries that have UHC are much smaller than America, and they have problems paying for it, and it is inferior to ours. You won’t be able to get into to see a Drs. quickly. Do you think our young people will want to become Drs. and nurses if we have UHC? Those who complain about Pharmaceutical Companies making too much money, where do you think they get the funds to discover new drugs? This country is on the leading edge of medical research and that will stop. If we get UHC it won’t be long before it will be legal to put the elderly asleep, because it will cost too much money to keep them around. Women will be required to be examined to see if the baby in their womb has a physical defect and if they find one they will be required to abort the baby even they don’t won’t too. Also, the cost to each one of us will be more than the average person will be able to afford. Don’t be deceived into thinking that it is going to be free. “O” is talking about a special tax on everything we buy to pay for this. From what I hear it will be up to 25% added on to each item. This is only a short list of what will happen, and if you think these things won’t happen then you are just kidding yourself
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billybsvp5 months, 1 week ago
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The Democrats screamed and hollered about Bush's 11 trillion dollar deficit, but now that Obama is about to double that they are saying nothing.......his healthcare plan will devestate this country......how does he plan to pay for it? The government needs to back off and leave OUR money alone. Forest Bush and his administration dug the grave and now Obama E. Newman wants to push us all into it! Socialized medicine works for the rich who can go outside the network, the rest of the people have to wait and wait and wait for the poorest of care. I have family in Eurpoe, they all say the same thing....it DOES NOT WORK!
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flyonthewallzz5 months, 1 week ago
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Hi Billybsvp:
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Please check my comments above.
I may be a moonbat lib, but I would spin on a dime if spending was anything like the figures I see thrown about here.
I provided links to Treasury department data.
Here is another one.
http://www.fms.treas.gov/mts/
I learned a new word the other day
monopsony (funny my spell checker is as dumb as I am!)
"In economics, a monopsony is a market form in which only one buyer faces many sellers. It is an example of imperfect competition, similar to a monopoly, in which only one seller faces many buyers."
I break from most of my liberal friends, in that I do not support single payer as the answer, I think it would make the health care industry even more like the military contractors that are ripping us off now.
But that is kind of a moot point, because that is not what Obama is trying to do anyway.
If I understand it correctly he is trying to bring down the cost of health care and using the threat of a government health insurance program that folks would have the option to buy into.
Self employed folks and small businesses have to pay a lot more for health insurance than big ones do. (500+ employees).
This would make it a lot easier for small companies to compete with big ones.
I hear time after time about the inefficiency of government, And I have looked at IRS data for the industry. The industry claims to be operating at less than a 10% profit margin. Why should they fear competition from from such an inefficient rival? Why should the 500+ employee companies fear competition from small business?
Are you one of the folks that thinks things should stay just as they are?
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THOMNH625 months, 1 week ago
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I only have one question, who will pay for it. The country is already in debt which will take decades to overcome. While free health care is a great idea just who gets the bill, aren't we taxed enough or do people think the rich should just pay for it again, we are going to run out of rich people and then what.
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Icantwait5 months, 1 week ago
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My Fellow Unhealthy Americans: We have trumped up numbers, complaints against insurance companies, praise for universal health care that has never worked, politicians getting elected because they promised to fix health care and here we are getting worse and worse health care every day. We have our hospitals flooded with illegal aliens that have never seen a hospital before. They clutter up the waiting rooms with all sorts of psychosomatic sicknesses without the money to pay for all this attention. So, we foot their bills, money needless spent, raising the cost of health care for American Citizens. We have welfare lay-a-bouts popping out babies at a record rate many of their children by a series of different men. Of Course, they can't afford the many visits they have to have to assure the child will be a ten and ten. Guess who pays for it all? It seems to me that fixing the health care recipients is a pretty good start because when they can't pay real Americans have to pay double or triple or more. Government health care will not fix anything. Hey, when the government takes over anything it fails, check out General Motors, Chrysler, the Banks. You don't have to see a Doctor for a Headache that's why they made Tylenol. We have become a nation of hypochondriacs and that just adds to the expense problems. At least the system we once reveled in worked well enough to not consider that their even was a problem. Our problems with health care started when we started to become a Welfare Nation. Obama is not helping. Oh again he talks big with what we are going to do, then he tells us the benefits of what we are going to do, unfortunately he forgets to tell us how he intends to do it. He always seems to leave out the middle. The Real American
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CHAM5 months, 1 week ago
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There is no such thing as healthcare that costs nothing. But there is a real healthcare that is better than what we currently have.
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To make a proper decision about what to do, we need to have facts, not BS, but facts. If I start with the following premise:
"The most inexpensive healthcare should come from a Single Payer plan."
What facts, not BS, can be used to refute that? -
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bonaroo5 months, 1 week ago
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About three months ago I had an acute myocardial infarction, better known as a heart attack. I went into the hospital with what I thought was severe heartburn or indigestion and came out about 32 hours later with 4 stents in my main coronary artery. Basically, the cardiologist and the team of doctors that helped place my stents saved my life and to tell you the truth, I feel better now than I have felt for years. My blood pressure went from 158 over 128 the day I had my attack to 104 over 60 today at my cardio rehab session.
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A few weeks ago I started getting the bills. The bill from the hospital alone was $118,000. and the bill for the cardiologist was around $6,700. For reasons that only someone in the insurance business can understand my insurance company paid $34,000 out of the $118,000. Mind you this is for a minimally invasive operation in the cath lab that took a little over 2 hours, and an overnight stay to make sure that everything was working well. Because of my great health coverage, I will end up paying only about $2,700 which is my cap for the year. I will be on 5 pills a day that currently have a retail value of about $550 a month for at least a year, and probably for the rest of my life.
This is my current interface with the health care system. I am grateful that it did not fail me, yet I have a lot of questions about the costs. It's easy to see how someone who didn't have insurance could lose their house when it costs so much. The good news is that according to my cardiologist, the survival rate for heart related events requiring hospitalization has improved by 60% in the last ten years.-
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flyonthewallzz5 months, 1 week ago
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Well bonaroo:
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I am happy that thing worked out for you, and glad for the opportunity to read your comment.
Statistically speaking if you where sitting in a room with 600 people who had the same experience: ....100 of them would have gotten bills from the hospitals that ranged from $40G to $300G. The other 500 whose circumstances allowed them insurance would see a payout from their provider of somewhere between $32G and $36G.
The pills are a whole different story, a Irish carpenter I work with told a story about filing out a prescription for his son (for an earache) before flying to Ireland to spend some time with grandparents. The US Pharmacy wanted $180 to fill the perspiration, he did not have that much in his pocket so he filed it in Ireland.. it cost him $4.
For the exact same thing!
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CHAM5 months, 1 week ago
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Bonaro tells a very similar story that I experienced. My Wife's Hospital bill came to $389,000 and the Hospital accepted $92,000 as payment in full from Blue Cross.
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About a year later, she had to return to the Hospital and Blue Cross refused to pay for some pills given to her at the Hospital bedcause she had a prescription that had been filled and had those same pills. The Hospital wouldn't use the prescription pills, only those they had in their Pharmacy. They charged me $32 per pill. The Drug store accepted a payment from Blue Cross for about 30 cents per pill.
I took it up with the Hospital Administrator and they refused to charge me the same amount that they would accept from Blue Cross ( about 35 cents).
Had I not had Insurance ( This was before I retired ), I would have had to pay the full $389,000 Hospital bill. The pills are the same type rip-off even through the money is less.
The essence is that the uninsured are getting the BOHICA (Bend over here it comes again)in this current Health Care System.
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