The rise of the non-believers »
Posted By greenmac 6 months ago in ReligionI have no belief as to whether intelligent life exists on other planets. Furthermore, I don't care. I don't bother reflecting on the matter. It's utterly irrelevant to me.Similarly, I have no religious beliefs. None. When Homer said "all men need the gods," he was wrong. Like roughly 34 million other people in this country (more than the population of Canada), I don't.
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greenmac
Ok..Ok....This is where I say something great about myself.....hmmmm. I like daylight and night time as well. How am I doing so ...
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greenmac6 months ago
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Ciera-Marie6 months ago
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You're shunned, labeled a backslider and other things if you start to have questions about the teachings of the Christian church and how they don't align with the teachings of Jesus. How there are tons of inconsistencies in the bible. Why do Jews need to convert if they're already God's chosen people? How the modern church aligns with Paul and not Jesus. Ask why and you're attacked and given more references to Paul not Jesus.
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You're shunned even if you believe in God and don't go to church.
You're labeled backslider, attacked, shamed and in some cases I've seen "believers" spiritually abuse people to try and get them to go back to church.
I stopped drinking the kool aid. -
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cowboygrandpa6 months ago
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gm:
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Yep a lot of people don't believe in God.
Thats alright, their not believing in God doesn't affect my believing in Him. I'm not judged by their beliefs or actions, but by mine.
So I have no problem with them. My only problem is with those who attack for or against, with a hatred that is not needed.
Discussion is fine , not agreeing is fine. Hating someone for their difference over the beliefs is not.
I'm taught forgiveness, not tolerance. Tolerance has a level, forgiveness does not.
So since I'm forgiven and loved by God, I forgive and love as well.
Peace my friend. -
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Bkumm6 months ago
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I am non-religious and an unbeliever. I do not believe in a god or gods. However, I am neither apathetic to the question nor do I consider myself to be a true atheist. There are more of us now than before and it's about time people started paying attention. I will bow before no man and I will bow before no god.
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chevydog6 months ago
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You know, I was reading the comments on some other post on the general topic; and I was struck by how much some of them sounded like various friends who unquestionably consider themselves Catholic. One wonders how much disagreement is caused by just the using of terms that people think are unambiguous, but really are not.
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fiftynine6 months ago
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I am on another side..raised catholic,i believe in a God.Not because of my upbringing exactly but because i see no other alternative..The God i believe in probably doesn't fit anywhere in the Catholic religion or any other for that matter..just my personal view.Why ? I just don't see the universe,or universes as a random happening..thats all.
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I also think that in a new civilazation that if i wanted to keep a memory alive i would do it through religion some how..That is another thread...See how confusing it can become real quick...lol.
If someone wants to believe in a God(s)in a certain way,more power to them.
If you choose not to believe..thats ok also.I have enough problems keeping my own belief system in check..What am i saying ??? Hmmmmmm,i'll go pray on it.-
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greenmac6 months ago
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I am an agnostic.... not quite sure how this all came to be. I was brought up Anglican and attended church on a regular basis. As I grew older and observed life around me and throughout the world ... I began to doubt that there was a god as described and preached by religious doctrine.... there simply was no existing proof during my lifetime to support the existence of that deity. Yes there were the stories from the distant past that promoted the existence....Ii would have to say that I cannot support these stories as fact. They could be no more than urban legend. That being said ... I also support those who wish to believe...it is their choice.
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I find religion causes a divide in society....this is not a positive thing. So much violence and strife has been accredited to having all the various denominations that exist today. I don't credit this divide to the concept of religion.... I charge man with creating this.
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smithichie6 months ago
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FTA: "Atheists are people like Christopher Hitchens, the author of God Is Not Great, or Richard Dawkins, who wrote The God Delusion. They go around attacking the very notion of God, and they have at least something in common with the religious fundamentalists they attack: great faith that they are right".
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I have to take a bit of an issue with this statement, while mostly agreeing with the rest of the article. Neither, Dawkins or Hitchens makes an absolute statement about gods, they do not say for certain there are no gods. Instead they both admit that gods, like leprechauns, are impossible to disprove yet extremely unlikely to exist. This does not take great faith, just simple observation. -
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ameliog6 months ago
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Religion: Finally, a Propeller topic that draws us all together in harmony and unity of thought. ;)
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Is this thread an opinion free-for-all? I'd like to offer another perspective.
The author sees some things that are worth noting such as the messy nature of religion that mixes in with nationalistic and political ideologies. However, his conclusion is limited to one thing: Declining church numbers equals declining belief in God.
There is a growing movement away from the man-made institutional aspects of faith. But this movement is not exclusively a movement away from belief in God. In fact, people's individual accounts suggest there is a move toward spirituality and a purer relationship with God, and throwing off what is false and the petty power-over controls found in many religious institutions. So the numbers show lots of church buildings with declining pew renters. They aren't tossing away their Bible. For these people, the Bible is now taking on a living quality that was not apparent before. They find insight and guidance to help them grow, rather than extracting certain passages to use to keep their neighbor in check.
As one would expect, the mainstream religious institutions are blind to the shifting now occurring and even if shown, will misinterpret what they see. The thought of people individually responding to the call of one voice bothers them, because this voice will not bow to their limited viewpoints and methods of control. And what they can't see, they reject, akin to their own form of atheism that denies any work of God that can be discerned by their own intellect and logic, which of course they believe is identical to God's. He operates in accordance with their thoughts, so they think, and deceive themselves for today while making lives miserable for others who aren't in line with their current dogma.
People that sincerely follow their faith are people we'd want to know, if ever we could find them among all the noisemakers who push people away with their arrogance and hypocrisy. They exist, just in much smaller number. This is my take, and I only see a very small part of the picture so I make no claim to the only correct viewpoint. I'm going with what works for me in my experience. Everybody comes at these issues from their own place.-
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Eagle_Eye6 months ago
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"There is a growing movement away from the man-made institutional aspects of faith. But this movement is not exclusively a movement away from belief in God. In fact, people's individual accounts suggest there is a move toward spirituality and a purer relationship with God, and throwing off what is false and the petty power-over controls found in many religious institutions."
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That is exactly what Jesus did, he rebelled against the Temple Priests and taught that you don;'t need a middle man or any thing in between you and God. His teaching have been used and abused by Christianity.
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calitennflo6 months ago
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lvrofwolves6 months ago
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As far as I'm concerned, nobody can ever take someones faith away from them and nobody else can force someone to believe.
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We can all act a certain way, say whatever, but everyone knows pretty much exactly what is in their heart. You might persuade someone to your way of thinking, but that's as far as it goes. I don't even think belief is a choice. One may choose certain paths or to close their minds to other things, I just don't think people can just say to themselves 'well! I'm going to chose to believe/disbelieve'. You do, you don't, or you don't know! I'm in the 'I don't know' category (Agnostic) -
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chuck-the-canuck6 months ago
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My biggest problem with religion, any religion, is that all too often it places responsibility for both our spiritual and material realm in the hands of a dubious other. We live in a world that has more than its share of pain and suffering in the strictly material realm. To look to god to intervene is a fools game.
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It may be cute when our children send letters to the North Pole to cajole Santa into giving them a bright shiny red fire truck for Christmas, but it becomes disturbing when adults pray to god to intervene on the worldly plain.
Pray to god, or pray to the mail-box down on the corner and I guarantee the results will be the same.-
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chevydog6 months ago
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There are plenty of jokes from religious sources concerning the answering of prayers. Many I've heard have the prayers being answered through mundane means, such as the actions of neighbors or friends. But often the ones whose prayers are actually answered refuse to believe they are because they're looking for more obviously supranartural effects.
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Typically the ending is someone screaming "God, why didn't you answer me?" And God says " I sent you three different guys who could have helped. And you didn't listen to them. What's your problem?"
I'd agree that we really shouldn't be expecting e.g a dozen steaks when there were only three to begin with. Think that prayers are much more likely to be answered when requests are limited; maybe like strength to make changes in yourself you see as necessary. Some people would deride that as mere self-delusion. Personally I don't; but I guess that would depend on what one's view of the nature of God is.
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canadianrancher576 months ago
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I sort of chuckle when I read comments on believing or not believing and also on having faith or not having faith. Everyone has beliefs and faith, and to prove my point I could ask the simple question do you believe the sun will come up tomorrow and although we do not really know for sure whether it will or will not it would be hard to find a person who would say no it won't.
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Now for those of you who wonder what this has to do with religion, one of my beliefs is that religion was mans first attempt to explain the unknown and even today with all of our science and knowledge we cannot still explian the unknown which leaves us with only OUR beliefs or OUR faith that the sun will come up tommorow. -
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cowboygrandpa6 months ago
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Icw:
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"My Fellow Americans: All I can say to that is if you don't believe in God than go to Hell. It's your life and you can do like you want. I chose Heaven. The Real American"
Something was bothering me about your opening. It reminds me of what Nixon used to open his speeches with.
Now it makes sense. You are a Nixonite !!!! That explains the insanity of your posts and beliefs.
Really you chose heaven ??? So when does that choice go into effect ???? Because you have shown it is not in you right now. You want people to go to hell ??? So you would send them there ???
Oh btw you know that Billy Graham came out years ago with statements about Nixon fooling him about wanting to be a Christian right ??? That Graham was surprised at the mans total lack of ethics and morality.
Some hero you admire.
Try admiring Jesus Christ if you claim to be a Christian !!!! After all He is one who teaches us what a Christian is.
Take a look in the mirror and you will see what one isn't !!!
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obiefrommuskogee6 months ago
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"Ron Millar, one of Silverman's fellow secular activists, agrees. He says two factors provoked American non-believers to stand up in recent years: the political rise of the religious right, which tends to comprise people interested in telling others how they should live their lives; and the publication of a slew of agnostic and atheistic books, including Hitchens's."
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I have to agree that the behavior of the religous right leaves a foul taste in the mouth. It causes people to reevaluate their own beliefs and faith... by their example, who wants to belong to that club? These are some of the most unforgiving people on the planet.
Evangelical preachers are also contributing to the demise of established religion. God said " My words are not your words; my thoughts are not your thoughts." Iow, we cannot even comprehend the true nature of God, yet we have these loud mouthed evangelical types proclaiming to be experts on God and WHAT GOD WANTS!! It is beyond belief. -
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nicky023456 months ago
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I think having Faith is a wonderful thing. It seems to bring joy to many people I know.
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However, I have never bought into it. I am not arrogant enough to say there is no God, but my gut says there's not. There have always been Gods to explain the unknown. It's just too easy.
But for America, religion is holding us back. Using the Bible to dictate policy is outdated. You think gay marriage will be the death of life as you know it? Well make weddings a religious thing, and give everyone civil unions from the state.
Like I said Faith is wonderful, believe what you will. But everyone deserves the opportunities that the government gives.
Using religion as a mask for discrimination is despicable. -
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aceofspades16 months ago
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No one is born with an innate sense of a religion, it is taught the same as any other knowledge. A Catholic could be a Baptist if not for the circumstances into which he/she is born. That said, one can be a non-believer yet still have the culture and traditions of their ancestor's religion.
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I believe that man himself is the master of his destiny given the constraints of the situation into which he is born. There is no higher Godlike power predetermining our destiny.
Life is finite and I do not believe there is an afterlife, so the life we lead must be for the here & now & not for some future eternal existance. Our immortality is in the memories of others & the lives of our children, this is where our true sense of humanity must reside -
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CRYMTYPHON6 months ago
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How can anyone with ambition to be wise not be interested in whether there are other beings that circle the stars we see?
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How can anyone think that the question is not important to their lives?
It's as ignorant as looking down from a plane at the little specks moving below, and dismissing the ant-like creatures as irrelevant.
For that matter, - real ants are a wonder.
Go to them and learn about yourself, - and possibly be filled with awe. Did you know an ant has seven noses ? Did you know they often assasinate their own queens ?
Materialism is not the crushing of the spirit of wonder;
athiesm is not the death of the desire to find connections between the rainbow, the ants, and the inhabitants of Gliese D.
If gods are mixed up in that I, the materialist, am interested in knowing all it. If nothing else, the theory tells me about people; which will bring me back selfishly to myself and the ants. -
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chuck-the-canuck6 months ago
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Religion is the biggest con game on the planet and you can probably thank your family and friends for introducing you to it. It is highly unlikely, being a product of the twenty-first century, that you would have come up with the idea of a petulant sky being, watching your every move, while at the same time keeping score on your behaviour in order determine where you will be destined to spend eternity, all on your own.
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Think about it. Would you now be so rabidly defending the faith if not for some well meaning, but deeply delusional friend or family member? But, don’t be to hard on them because they suffered the same fate and so did their parents and their parents, right on back to their ancestors who thought the earth was flat and the stars were painted on the holy firmament.
Wake up and have a big cup of reasoned logic.
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