Goodbye, GM ...by Michael Moore »
Posted By jovial 5 months, 3 weeks ago in NewsI write this on the morning of the end of the once-mighty General Motors. By high noon, the President of the United States will have made it official: General Motors, as we know it, has been totaled.
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jovial
Grew up In Brooklyn. Joined the Navy in 1976 stayed in 10 years. Aircraft Electronics tech. Worked for Major Govt. contractor then settled in California ...
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dunkirk5 months, 3 weeks ago
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Beginning in the 1980s, when GM was posting record profits, it moved countless jobs to Mexico and elsewhere, thus destroying the lives of tens of thousands of hard-working Americans. The glaring stupidity of this policy was that, when they eliminated the income of so many middle class families, who did they think was going to be able to afford to buy their cars?
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Truer words couldn't have been said.
AS Henry Ford once said "I have to pay my workers enough so they can buy my cars". -
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b-happy5 months, 3 weeks ago
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THIS is Obamas first BIG BLUNDER. Only 21% of the people wanted the 50 Billion dollar bailout of GM. Obama decided to GO AGAINST THE MAJORITY and he WASTED 50 Billion dollars on nothing. WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE?
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If this were Bush you Demobots would be going CRAZY about Wasteful spending. But since Obama is the Leader of the Demobots then you guys are silent. Grow some Balls and go after your own when the Fock up.
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scott42615 months, 3 weeks ago
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simonsez5 months, 3 weeks ago
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It does have to be that way or this way. Everybody involved in the company made bad decisions all along the way and at some point it becomes non-competitive. It needs a fix.
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Normal re-organization should have been the fix this time. Now we have Ford, a private company, who did much better, having to compete head on with a government company filled with government money. Now it puts them at a competitive disadvantage they have to overcome.
It was BS for Obama to intervene ... -
sonofreasonComment removed: Hard Banned1 Reply
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Spadecaller5 months, 3 weeks ago
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The idiocy of these corporate executives for selling out this country's labor and manufacturing market is astonishing. The morons not only destroyed thousands and thousands of jobs, they destroyed the middle class.
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Now who will buy their crappy products? China? Bull! They won't open their markets up to us as we did for them. What other nation has the buying power our middle class used to have? That's right, none!
I have no sympathy for these gluttons. Let them go out of business and let's empower a new set of business leaders who will venture out into producing energy efficient vehicles that do not require oil. We have had the technology for years to produce cars that can run on freaking water.
The oil lobbies and these greedy corporate scrooges have done enough to destroy our nation. The best way to get rid of them is to let them fail. ABolish all lobbies and invest in the people of this nation and we will see better times again.-
sonofreasonComment removed: Hard Banned2 Replies
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BB645 months, 3 weeks ago
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You know, it cracks me up that anyone actually reads the crap from fat boy. He's making claims of global warming, the same day we had frost warnings. He's telling us we should keep the unions employed. What a joke. The UAW and government had a great deal to do with GM's collapse. You know instead of reading from a typical rich liberal with the, "Live as I tell you to live, not the way I live." "And don't take my G5 from me either..."
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If you want to know what the former communists feel about this perhaps you should read the following:
http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/107459...-
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splitrch5 months, 3 weeks ago
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"He is a kid still with no clue what is going on because he never ran a business or worked for one."
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You mean W don't you? Wait a minute, Bush ran businesses - right into the ground. What were his qualifications other than being a corporate stooge? Every thing he touched turned to ****. Including the US economy. I'll take someone with intelligence, humanity and clarity of vision any day over a dried up alcoholic ****** off at the world. Obama may not have the "Midas Touch" yet, maybe he never will but at least he isn't King Midas in reverse. -
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BB645 months, 3 weeks ago
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The executives are only a small part of this. I agree they did lead the business to doom but the UAW, stock holders and government must be included. First, the UAW drove this. Their health care, pensions and benefits killed them. The quality problems were started in the 1960's and didn't get better. The reason management went overseas for parts is easy. If you have pensions and benefits that must be paid, quality must decline. You farm out products locally but eventually they end up outside of the US. Again, this decision was wrong, the unions should have been slapped down but the UAW is a powerful lobby.
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You want to get rid of lobbyists, fine. Just stop letting Unions fund elections. Effectively, GM and Chrysler were purchased by the UAW with the $13,000,000 contribution to the Obama campaign. You mention investing, how about letting the UAW pay for their own benefits period. Stop taking my tax money. -
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Endoscopy5 months, 3 weeks ago
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Spadecaller is ranting ignorance. Everything is the fault of the management.
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He ignores what the UAW did to the company with its high wages and benefits along wing the huge pensions and health care after retirement.
He ignores what the company has done to make up the quality difference and even be ahead in the statistics of warranty repair.
He ignores what the tax burden has done to the sales ability to sell overseas.
He ignores what the governments have done with all kinds of rules that drove companies out of Michigan and especially Detroit.
He ignores what the cafe standards did that hurt the companies.
With people like Spadecaller in charge at GM these days from the government it will most likely fail. They are blind to what drives a company to be profitable.
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jovial5 months, 3 weeks ago
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It cracks me up that people listen to fatboy Limbaugh... Michael Moore may be controversial, but Global warming is a reality. Healthcare in this country is broken, and Bush devastated this country during his Presidency. All of those things have been said by Michael Moore, and all have caused people to look seriously at the problems noted. Granted he makes money from doing it, but what filmmaker wouldn't? As far as the UAW and government being to blame, I think not! GM's quality and type of products they put out are to blame. They put profits ahead of research and failed to anticipate future products and get them on the market.
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BB645 months, 3 weeks ago
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First, warming? Prove it. Show me your entire data. Show the entire scientific method you used. Keeping in mind the hard data is less than 125 years old and the planet is over 5,000,000,000 years old, there isn't enough data for your room for error. And I don't want a bunch of nut job websites. Show me your published material that is accepted by a real committee of scientists.
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As to health care, there is nothing wrong with our system in it's current form that a little modification couldn't handle. First, stop treating illegal aliens. That's 15 million using our system, why do you think aspirin costs $ 500 a tablet in the hospital? Secondly, don't tax current benefits. Third, if you want people covered make them pay for it on their taxes. It shouldn't be paid for by anyone else.
You want social medicine, visit the UK or Canada. If you're healthy great. If you get sick, you're in trouble. Think about single payer government health insurance. It's a giant HMO run by the post office or DMV.
I have a better idea. Ask your icon, Mike Moore, why if health insurance is so important and every employer should be forced to offer it, why doesn't he offer it to his staff? -
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MajJohn5 months, 3 weeks ago
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And.. Michael Moore was a big help wasn't he? Yeh! And Bush caused global warming and health care was just fine before Bush. Oh, and profits through GMAC rather than building a quality product and making a profit that way, shhh, don't look that was Bush's fault also. And Rush L. ?? need I say Moore?? All conservative boggy men are at fault, now doesn't that sound really stupid??
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Commodore15 months, 3 weeks ago
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GM probably went under trying to pay that sumo wrestler's food bill. Maybe not. I'm sure the labor unions did nothing to help this but I don't agree w/Michael Moore on anything. I can't stand him and the three parking spaces he takes up.
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jovial5 months, 3 weeks ago
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People that live in make-believe worlds often tend to be angry with those that would try to bring them to reality. So in this case it is perfectly understandable for you to make that type of statement. Unfortunately, it has little to do with reality, and thus has little merit.
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Natureboy5 months, 3 weeks ago
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A glaring fact missed by the flat-earthers on this thread - the employer-based group health insurance model in this country, combined with runaway profiteering and lack of meaningful cost controls, itself is a massive financial burden which makes it difficult for US companies to compete globally.
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If the mouth-breathers had a clue and were really pro-business, they would be cheerleading for government-based, universal single-payor health insurance.
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reallypsst5 months, 3 weeks ago
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We can add more culprits to this story,like the idiots who let foreign manufacturers flood our nation,the unbalanced trade agreements,the out sourcing of labor,and finally greed and lack of vision,Gm had its cake and ate it to,the scrapping of the EV1 was one of their down falls !
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greenmac5 months, 3 weeks ago
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I like Obama....he may not please everyone all the time with his moves...he will make mistakes. There were not other alternatives running in the last election that would even come close to his abilities. The death spirial of the economy had started long before he took office.
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CHAM5 months, 3 weeks ago
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Stop blaming the leaders and blame the real culprits - the greedy. To make money faster and easier, the greedy looked offshore where there are people willing to work for almost nothing.
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I worked for a company that believed in customer satisfaction. They worked on a low profit margin but were at the top in the world in their niche. Then the long time CEO died and along comes the new "breed" who charmed stockholders by showing how much earnings they had been missing by not taking advantage of "opportunities". The new breed was voted in and within 10 years the worlds leader was no longer in the top ten producers of their product.
But the front end profit bubble gained the new breed so much power that the stockholders couldn't see the forest for the trees as their market share decline became steeper and steeper until suddenly they were in free fall.
People - it's called greed.
Aesop had a pretty good story "The Goose that laid the golden eggs". Remember what greed did to that goose? -
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Klarissa5 months, 3 weeks ago
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So GM can't bring into the US the "green" cars it builds in China and elsewhere.
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Obama said the Government won't interfere, except in major decisions, like what kind of car to build and where to build a new plant (Chicago???)_
So far, Dictator Obama has taken over the banks, transportation, the internet (a new czar), the coal companies, insurance companies, the census, youth groups, and wire tapping, mortgages.
Stopped newspapers from printing about the stimulus.
Trying to take over what can be broadcast on TV regarding politics.
Next??-
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jovial5 months, 3 weeks ago
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steveleeComment removed: Hard Banned
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flyonthewallzz5 months, 3 weeks ago
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http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/06co24ccr.xls
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RETURNS OF ACTIVE CORPORATIONS WITH 50 PERCENT OR MORE FOREIGN OWNERSHIP
Transportation equipment manufacturing FY2006
Total receipts.. 324,817,650.. % of reciepts
Salaries and wages.. 9,026,049.. 2.78%
Pension, profit-sharing, stock, annuity.. 1,126,922.. 0.35%
Employee benefit programs.. 5,138,597.. 1.58%
Total.. 4.71%
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/06co06ccr.xls
RETURNS OF ACTIVE CORPORATIONS
Transportation equipment manufacturing FY2006
Total receipts.. 1,092,419,784.. % of reciepts
Salaries and wages.. 38,194,216.. 3.50%
Pension, profit-sharing, stock, annuity.. 9,669,657.. 0.89%
Employee benefit programs.. 19,478,940.. 1.78%
Total 6.16%
RETURNS OF ACTIVE CORPORATIONS - 50% foreign ownership
Transportation equipment manufacturing FY2006
Total receipts.. 767,602,134.. % of reciepts
Salaries and wages.. 29,168,167.. 3.80%
Pension, profit-sharing, stock, annuity.. 8,542,735.. 1.11%
Employee benefit programs.. 14,340,343.. 1.87%
Total 6.78%
Labor variance.. 2.07%
Cost of goods sold variance.. -5.42%
Other deductions variance.. 4.73% -
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Icantwait5 months, 3 weeks ago
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My Fellow Americans: Obama's Administration Killed General Motors. He said he could save it, here's some money, not saved yet, here is some more tax payer money, ok General Manager you are fired, still failing, Ok we are putting in our people, stop making the vehicles that people want, SUVs and Trucks, well I tried, ok so I lied, I couldn't say any business, especially the car industry. Ok now we can build little tiny tiney itsy bitsy cars that the people don't want, I can just say I tried again. Too Bad. Oh we have cars that run on water they are called boats. The Real American
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jovial5 months, 3 weeks ago
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You can have your big car. There will always be those that compensate their smaller attributes for big vehicles. The majority of Americans don't want to be caught with a H3 next time some speculators bid gas up to 200 dollars a barrel and gasoline goes to 5 or 6 dollars a gallon.
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THOMNH625 months, 3 weeks ago
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so where will I go then. I saw MM on tv with Bloberman going on about how GM should be used to make high speed rail cars, buses and other types of green transportation but isn't the problem that not enough people are buying GM cars, so no we are all going to be forced to ride the bus, great.
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flyonthewallzz5 months, 3 weeks ago
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http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/charts/chartd...
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This link may not work..but if you go to the 10 year chart and compare XOM,GM,TM.
You will see how GM stock Mirrors the value of Exxon stock, and Toyota pretty much rides with it.
Folks have a prepackaged set of Ammo to trash the "New Deal" with.
I do wonder what you think of the "Marshall Plan" or the "GI bill"?
I keep wondering if folks want us to repeat what we did after World War 1? -
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cb400fsupersport5 months, 3 weeks ago
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I guess people would rather buy Toyotas built in Kentucky and Hondas built in Ohio rather than Pontiacs built in Australia or Saturns built in Mexico. Early in my career, I was a member of the UAW (condition of employment). I never really understood how the car companies could stay in business with the ridiculous demands foisted on them by the unions. Looks like I was right.....
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truthiness5 months, 3 weeks ago
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if you compare the wages of american auto workers to japanese auto workers they are basically the same.
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if you compare salaries of american auto execs to japanese auto execs, you'll find the american auto execs are paid exponentially more.
in japan health insurance is paid for through taxes
so the difference is not the UAW wage requirements, but exec salaries and repub refusal to endorse national health insurance.
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mikeywes5 months, 3 weeks ago
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Have any of you who bemoan the crisis of the auto industry and try to attach it to the UAW and related unions....drive from Pittsburgh Pa to Flint Michigan via Cleveland, Akron, Youngstown Toledo and Detroit. First the Steel industry and now the related auto industry has been destroyed by the inability of the upper management and owners to respond to changing markets and competition. The "Club" and the "Company" (not the CIA) were mainstays of post WW2 American industry. They were arrogant and had only the short term profit scenario to fuel their business decisions. They basically had the philosophy of 'we decide what to produce and the price and that is that' ...first fell the steel industry and now the autos...greed and arrogance and a horrible disdain for the consumer have fueled their riches and now the horrible sucking sound from the fertile middle of America that once made us proud and powerful. Mike Moore, in all of his hysteria and rightousness, has hit it on the head with a bullet. To those who call his words wrong..look around you. His ideas, while imperfect, show that there could be a dramatic turnaround in our economy if we care. The greed motive will eventually kick in and the opportunists will gut the energy but hopefully enough will stick and we can have some kind of boom...new robber barons will replace the old ones. Bring back the middle class..
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cb400fsupersport5 months, 3 weeks ago
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The paradigm has changed and neither management or the unions realized it. I have worked for American and Japanese car companies and both have issues. A well run American managed car manufacturer can beat the dickens out of the Japanese. Unfortunately you can't run a car company or any business for that matter when your labor costs are not competitive. As an ex-member of both the UAW and management, I can categorically tell you that both are at fault. The unions for demanding completely unrealistic benefits and management for caving in to their demands.
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frctm55 months, 3 weeks ago
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The auto industry is not like other industries. Once you lose it, you lose it for good. It takes a tremendous capital outlay and an enormous marshalling of resources in order to manufacture something as sophisticated as a car. You need parts suppliers, marketing, a string of dealerships, engineers and about five years to develop a single model. This notion that something will just rise in their place if we lose our American manufacturing giants is just naive. We'll turn into a nation that makes nothing. We'll just be consumers.
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swebb35095 months, 3 weeks ago
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I would like for any car company to make a car that does not have yellow/cloudy headlights in three years. Oh and they still cost $800.00 a piece for a Chrysler Pacifica. I broke both of mine hitting a limb that blew into the road. My wifes Toyota's headlights have been replaced with a purchase from e-bay. How much money has been wasted trying to polish the cloudiness out with stuff that does not work! Build a car.
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canadianrancher575 months, 3 weeks ago
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There were some things in the artcle that I have to agree with and most of those have to do with bullet trains and mass transit and getting away from using hydrocarbon fuels, as for the idea of retooling GM to produce these new types of transportation I find it hard to get behind that idea. I hate the idea of people losing jobs and I know the fallout from losing a major company like GM will affect many other industries as well, it will have a domino effect that will change the country in a very drastic way and the outcome will not be a pretty picture.
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Now with all that being said I have a problem with the bailout of GM and that is this company ended up in trouble because of the greed of everyone involved in the industry in general. If GM is kept afloat by using taxpayers dollars will we do the same for Ford if it ends up in the same problem and if we do then we will not only be supporting the auto industry but we will be supporting all of the related industries as well and the bill for this is going to be extremely large and I think that we will still see foreign cars sold at a cheaper price regardless if the are green cars or gas burners.
In this global economy that we now live in it comes down to competition and we are not competative when it comes to price therefore we cannot regain any of the past glory in regards to production of anything until there is a major correction in our costs. The debt that is going to be placed on the average person to repay all of this spending whether it is on the auto industry or stimulus spending is going to continue to cripple the middle class.
There is a saying that I have tried to live by and that is "if your out flow exceeds your income then your upkeep will become your downfall". I think that this is true with the present situation where we seem to be willling to spend any amount to maintain a standard of life which is not sustainable in the global market. -
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jaq5 months, 3 weeks ago
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I like the references to all our old moralistic fairy tales. Kind of like bible thumping after the pregnancy. I especially enjoy comparing our current problems on the story about the Emperor without any clothes. We allowed ourselves to get here through pure unadulterated greed, nothing more while refusing to see the truth we allowed this to happen. You were all warned in the 1960's and most laughed it off as communistic Satanism. Take a look around you at the deals on houses and new cars, but no one to buy them, what a shame. Unions, caused this? Why do we have Unions? Perhaps slave and child labor practices of the early 1900's. Read your history books. The Unions saved our behinds then and now you would just dismiss all the good they have done. It is the over payment to the underachieving white collar perhaps? In the 60's through the 80's we had a workforce. Today our youth has no idea what hard work is. If you assemble autos for 12 hour days 7 days a week in "foundry work" conditions, then expect a pay out. Work 40 hour weeks and go to school full time and you will make it. We can't all marry the bosses daughter or caddy for the head of GM. Stop wasting your money and time so we can fix the problem. I have been there done that. Had it, lost it, but life still goes on. I can tell by your voting styles, such as Bush and the illustrious Ronnie Ray-Gun and his trickle down theory. (kind of like the "Star Wars Defense Policy") that you must think you are the Amerikan dream and will get it for little effort, sorry.
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Justice4All5 months, 3 weeks ago
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GM was losing money when the other automakers in Europe and Japan were setting record profits.
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Remember that boycotts work two ways, or I should say both ways. When Rumsfield went on his rant about boycotting France, Germany and anyone else that did not go along with their war, he alienated most of the world. A global company like GM cant survive with the world boycotting your products. And it didn't help when your government goes around upsetting the rest of the world with it's war mongering.
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