Pro-life Terrorist Opens Fire in Church, Kills Doctor »
Posted By Spadecaller 5 months, 3 weeks ago in ReligionExtreme right fundamentalist Christian leaders are demanding that American civil rights laws provide an exemption for their "right" to kill their political opponents, or any other American they disprove of, provided they claim the murder was inspired by their faith. Now a man is dead, and an American church has been shot up during services.
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Spadecaller
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Spadecaller5 months, 3 weeks ago
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An overt threat that advocates violent acts of terrorism is not a guaranteed right provided by the first amendment in our constitution.
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Calling for the murder of Dr. George Tiller or for the assassination of President Obama are serious acts that should be addressed. Now Dr. Tiller is dead, and an American church has been shot up during services
The religious right extremists and the Republican Party it runs were outraged when America's law enforcement community threatened to investigate all terrorist threats facing America.
Hiding under the first amendment they have launched a domestic war that should not be ignored.
Homeland Security’s report was essentially ignored; the following comes from their actual report that was published a few months ago:
Paralleling the current national climate, right wing extremists during the1990s exploited a variety of social issues and political themes to increase group visibility and recruit new members. Prominent among these themes were the militia movement’s opposition to gun control efforts, criticism of free trade agreements (particularly those with Mexico), and highlighting perceived government infringement on civil liberties as well as white supremacists’ longstanding exploitation of social issues such as abortion, inter-racial crimes, and same-sex marriage. During the 1990s, these issues contributed to the growth in the number of domestic right wing terrorist and extremist groups and an increase in violent acts targeting government facilities, law enforcement officers, banks, and infrastructure sectors.
We must make a distinction between what is protected speech and what is sedition and incitement to violence and hate crimes. A reasonable fear of repression is healthy, but ignoring those that are calling for murder and sedition need to be confronted by the law.-
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Goppy5 months, 3 weeks ago
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There is an element of the Modern American Evangelical movement that is alarmingly similar to the mindset of the Taliban in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
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They have an extreme religious belief that calls some to kill those who don't share that belief.
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capecoralMComment removed: Retracted by user21 Replies
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gamahuche5 months, 3 weeks ago
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I don't have any ifs or buts or quibbles about this topic whatsoever.
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Separation of Church and State is the underpinning of democracy.
Freedom of worship is an essential right but it cannot be made an excuse to commit acts against the law of the land or acts which impinge on others' freedom to worship in their own manner.
G_d knows how much blood has been shed in the name of religion and s/he is NOT amused.-
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Spadecaller5 months, 3 weeks ago
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The line has been crossed and the quibbling about first amendment rights for those openly advocating violent acts of terrorism should not be condoned. These leaders are preaching the "right to kill" based on their beliefs; regardless of the law.
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Spadecaller5 months, 3 weeks ago
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In 1920, Adolf Hitler, authorized the formation of a Youth League of the National Socialist Workers' Party based upon the principles of an earlier German youth group known as as the Wandervögel. The Wandervögel (translated as "Migratory Bird") were the German equivalent of the Boy Scouts of America and the World Organization of the Scout Movement.
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Wandervögel members had an idealistic, romantic notion of the past, yearning for simpler days. They sang old German folk songs around the campfire and greeting each other by saying "Heil."
The growth of the League was slow at first, and in 1922 assistance came from the party newspaper the Völkischer Beobachter which now called for new members, declaring:
"We demand that the National Socialist Youth, and all other young Germans, irrespective of class or occupation, between fourteen and eighteen years of age, whose hearts are affected by the suffering and hardships afflicting the Fatherland, and who later desire to join the ranks of the fighters against the Jewish enemy, the sole originator of our present shame and suffering, enter the Youth League of the NSDAP..."
Exposed to hate speeches and threats of violence, it was not long before the actual killing of Jews was seen as an act of patriotism – a love for the Fatherland. Hate groups in America see themselves as “the real Americans” and their hate speeches advocate violence against gays, Jews, Blacks, President Obama, pro-choice physicians and other related employees. Ignoring their threats has proven to be unwise. -
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Mikunited5 months, 3 weeks ago
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What religion one belongs to,when committing a serious offense is irrelevant,the crime is what is to be judged.Ones religion,or lack of religion ,is for ones own conscience.Murder,injury and terror are a case for the courts.
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I am a Brit and live in the UK.We have right-wing pro life extremists,that have threatened, but to my knowledge haven't committed murder,not yet anyway.Though there have been American preachers ,who have given lectures and in my opinion have attempted to incite more violent behavior from their British "fans".
In the USA these right-wing,pro-life preachers inciting murder and/or other kinds of terror and their congregations,should be subject to the same laws as Islamic Mullahs,preaching terror and murder.
Fundamentalism is a toxic brand of religion,where real life is twisted to fit dogma and doctrine.Often it becomes linked to a political agenda,which revels in intolerance,hatred and bellicosity.It is one of the biggest threats to civilization in the 21st century.It matters not if the fundamentalism is Islamic,Judaic,Christian or any other "faith",it is an illness that needs to be eradicated.This will take the law,education and the winning of the moral argument.-
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Spadecaller5 months, 3 weeks ago
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Mikunited
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Well said. I agree. Whether it is Islamic,Judaic,or Christian fundamentalism, it will take law, education, and exposure to eradicate this threat. These ideologies are based upon the ignorant assumption that all other perspectives, religions, and peoples are, in fact, inferior and evil. With this blind hatred they wave their flags as if they are the avengers of God's will and they are fulfilling their mission by destroying others. Teaching and preaching violence and hate must not be ignored - hoping that it will go away. History has proven that to be a serious error in judgment.
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uncle-dave5 months, 3 weeks ago
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FTA:
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“Note that had Obama held firm in the face of the criticism last month, he'd be riding high right now and the GOP would be cowering in shame for having basically enabled this terrorist act. “
The one thing I find wrong with this statement is that the GOP isn’t capable of shame, particularly after the Terri Schiavo case.-
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Spadecaller5 months, 3 weeks ago
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I agree. I think that statement lends itself more to a critical view of the pandering that Obama sometimes indulges in, though he prefers to describe it as "bipartisanship". I wonder if he really believes that is working anymore...
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Will13135 months, 3 weeks ago
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here in Florida we even had a minister kill an abortion provider...
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he was killed by lethal injection.... wonder how hot it is where he went...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/u... -
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Georgia505 months, 3 weeks ago
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Spadecaller:
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I guess murder ceases to be extreme after 20 million or more victims, eh? But this ONE. That totals less than TEN abortionists. Over THIRTY years. THIS CAN ONLY BE EXTREME, RIGHT?
Don't worry that little brain cell of yours with a response. The question is rhetorical.-
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Spadecaller5 months, 3 weeks ago
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Goppy5 months, 3 weeks ago
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Not only is the question rhetorical ... it's baseless ... and pointless.
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Since abortion is legal in America - and most other nations - you're comment has no standing ... it's non-sensical.
But I hear ya ... and I understand where you are coming from .... when your fellow Americans don't agree with YOUR philosophy as to when life begins ... you feel free to call THEM Murderers.
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That's how the Taliban work it as well.
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djn3nunez35 months, 3 weeks ago
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THIS CAN ONLY BE EXTREME, RIGHT?
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Yes of course. Furthermore anyone who support this type of violent extremism should be ashamed.
But funny thing is, I don't think the American Taliban is capable of feeling shame no more than their Muslim brothers are! -
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hamy5 months, 3 weeks ago
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So you are saying that doctors who perforrm LEGAL medical procedures should be murdered?
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You think it is OK to shoot someone twice, bomb their home and then finally after years of daily torture murder them in cold blood outside their personal place of worship? -
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Spadecaller5 months, 3 weeks ago
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Georgia:
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Re: the topic.
This story is about a terrorist opening fire in a church and killing a man, because of his ideology.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." Winston Churchill
Your willingness to discuss the murder of Dr. Till was only in response to my remark, which I stand by.
Besides, you are still rude and you feel that is also your right too. I don't see any spirituality or love of mankind demonstrated by you on this site since I have been reading your comments over the past year or so.-
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aceofspades15 months, 3 weeks ago
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SC you are too kind - I'm not of the same mindset - I have little tolerance for those such as Georgia or those who in lock step dropped this article -- they are narrow minded, hateful, ignorant bastards- & I'm being somewhat controlled in making that response.
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Natureboy5 months, 3 weeks ago
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"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." Winston Churchill
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Perhaps even more to the point, "Fanaticism consists in redoubling your efforts when you have forgotten your aim." - George Santayana.
Pretty much sums up pro-life clinic bombers and doctor-assassins.
Except that "pro-life" is just a cover. These are some of the most anti-life people on the planet. They are the fanatical devotees of the Fetus Cult. They see sexuality as dirty. They worship the fetus because it has not been sullied by transversing the vaginal canal. Thus, the fetus is like Jesus, without sin. So Fetus almighty, the blameless one made flesh, is worshipped. Of course, once born, the child is sullied, and can be raped and ruined with impunity by their priests and ministers. They care not for the rest of humanity.
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amazed5 months, 3 weeks ago
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First, let me emphatically state that the guy who murdered this doctor should be tried and convicted for pre-meditated murder. There is no question in my mind about this.
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Now to this little essay that was posted. The author refers back to another one of his own essays to document the alledged calling for the right to murder by evangelical churches. When you follow that link, there is not one reference, quote, church or denomination named -- simply the author's assertion that this is what evangenlical Christian churches are advocating.
Who are these churches? I would suspect that they are little whack-job fringe churches like the Branch Davidians or those guys who were going to go to heaven on the comet.
I would like to see a quote and a reference from any remotely mainstream church advocating the extermination of abortion doctors. Yes, many are calling for extermination of abortion, but I know of none that advocate murder -- except in the mind of left-wing, atheistic anti-religion bigots.
If the shoe fits...-
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jovial5 months, 3 weeks ago
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Amazed I don't know how many mainstream churches support this type of thing. My guess little to none. But there is plenty of support from the "base" of the Republican party. I posted a story today on How Bill O'Reilly and Fox News stir these base nutjobs up to get ratings and eventually a few of them really believe they must do this for country or God!
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http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7192
One has to look no further than the comments coming from the Republican 'base" taken from the far-right Website FreeRepublic. Hundreds of comments across multiple threads applauding and celebrating the death of Tiller. -
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mesodude5 months, 3 weeks ago
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"Now to this little essay that was posted. The author refers back to another one of his own essays to document the alledged calling for the right to murder by evangelical churches. When you follow that link, there is not one reference, quote, church or denomination named -- simply the author's assertion that this is what evangenlical Christian churches are advocating."
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--FYI, amazed, I pos'd you (I know, there's a first time for everything) less for the content of your post than for the fact that you demonstrated that some of you right of center posters actually are capable of fact checking and critically analyzing a story. I realize that a lot of posturing and manufactured outrage goes on here (from those of all political stripe) but I reserve the right to refer to this post the next time I see you responding to just any old fringe piece from some random, obscure anti-left blog. Yes, I know that was a half-@ssed compliment but at least I didn't feel compelled to use the "c" word in one of my posts for a change...
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jimdozeComment removed: Spam
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aceofspades15 months, 3 weeks ago
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"Why don't we shoot the mothers instead of the doctors?"
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said with tongue in cheek I'm sure.
But too many women died at the hands of back-ally abortionists in the past. Abortions done with various instruments such as bent hangers and dubious drugs.
Abortion has been a means of birth control since time immemorial, must we sacrifice more women to the whims of religious fanaticism? -
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Spadecaller5 months, 3 weeks ago
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I also think this article should have provided more identities and links to those who are instrumental in leading this dangerous movement that has clearly infringed on the safe separation of church and state.
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Though this article fails to provide that information, there are many religious and political leaders participating in hate rhetoric and many of them have clearly expressed their support of illegal conduct. Their statements and quotes have recently made the headlines on numerous occasions.
I also agree that all conservative evangelical or fundamentalist Christians are not advocates of terrorism, but many of them are Dominionists, and many of them belong to or support the extremist fundamentalists who share the basic belief that God has given Christians both political and religious dominion over the planet generally and over America in particular. With that kind of mind set, they believe themselves to be God's chosen warriors. IN fact, this is being taught in their religious schools to children. Not to different than Islamofascist Muslim schools.
There are many leaders political and religious leaders and followers who support this doctrine. Tancredo, Delay, Tim Lahaye, Sarah Palin, Ann Coulter, Michele Bachmann, Katherine Harris, Steve Buyer, and most all of the Dominionist leaders.
Rod Parsley regularly preaches bigotry and Christian supremacy and among his supporters are Oliver North, Gary Bauer, and Rick Santorum.
Despite Bush’s documented reports on the large numbers of potentially violent neo-Nazis, right-wing extremists, skinheads, and other white supremacists who are learning the art of warfare in the armed forces, many Republicans are so desperate to restore their party image that they are willing to put partisan politics above homeland security.
Republicans are now arguing that, for politically correct and politically expedient reasons, we should ignore this possible domestic terror threat identified by former Pres. George Bush's FBI and George Bush's Department of Defense. The overlapping of political office and church functions has led to energizing a group of extremists that have alarmed the FBI. -
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Spadecaller5 months, 3 weeks ago
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There’s a difference between free speech and hate speech and finally, treason. This is not patriotism. People who urged that the nation consider impeachment against one of America’s worst presidents where considered extremists.
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How then to consider those who publicly advocate for what — armed militias roving the country? Assassination? Justified killing of doctors who perform abortions? -
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Spadecaller5 months, 3 weeks ago
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n2n
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Pro-lifers:
Another fine example of family values and compassionate conservatism, right? Of course, they have been ordained by God to tell everyone else what to do with their bodies and lives? Obey or we will kill you in the name of our Lord. What a sick and dangerous group of fanatics. -
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donrp085 months, 3 weeks ago
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from all the comments i've read it appears that many of you are just plain waco's and live in an extrem dark world. this people is what is distroying our great nation! why do you believe everything you see on the talk show's, news media outlet's, etc?? can any of you think for YOURSELVES OR HAVE YOU ALL JUST LOST ALL COMMON SINCE??
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Hobe5 months, 3 weeks ago
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Spadecaller...
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Really Now, i guess you are Ver Happy that Your Mommy did Not choose to Abort Your Life????
What an Idiot... You may want to ask Your Mother why she did not choose ABORTION instead of LIFE....
You Just May learn Something about the Right To Life...
Good Luck...
Please let the readers Know Your Mother's comments, it would be intresting and You may also Lear somthing...
Sincerely.... -
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Hobe5 months, 3 weeks ago
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Spadecaller...
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Really Now, i guess you are Ver Happy that Your Mommy did Not choose to Abort Your Life????
What an Idiot... You may want to ask Your Mother why she did not choose ABORTION instead of LIFE....
You Just May learn Something about the Right To Life...
Good Luck...
Please let the readers Know Your Mother's comments, it would be intresting and You may also Lear somthing...
Sincerely.... -
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Spadecaller5 months, 3 weeks ago
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Now Now Hobo, you are getting personal. My mother passed away and was a wonderful woman, whose memory I will always cherish. From her I learned many things; the first was to respect the feelings of others. Your pathetic comments only show that you lost out on that lesson.
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Being that you were given life, it is more of a shame that you have obviously wasted it; maybe you should ask your mommy why she didn't abort your pathetic life. People like you are the best examples of how religion fails to teach love and respect.
Perhaps you should sober up; either that, or go back to school and "lear" how to spell and to address others appropriately. Too bad your mommy was too busy to help you "lear" you any manners.
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Icantwait5 months, 3 weeks ago
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My Fellow Americans: It should not bother Liberals that a crime such as this happened. Liberals don't care, they want babies murdered, they shift the blame to one individual which is not even officially labeled a Conservative, Moderate, or Liberal. Let's just say this is a Radical individual. For all the Pro Choice supporters, to save money for our government, just give a Saber to the mother and when the head of the baby emerges into this new uncivilized world just lop it off. In essence that is what every mother that decides to abort their child is doing. As far as Adolph Hitler and the KGB can we say Barrack Obama and the Acorn Bullies. Barrack Obama has said he is for Pro Life and for him to change his mind now is just another example of us not believing a word he reads off his teleprompter. The Real American
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