Comments for AFP: Obama admits US involvement in 1953 Iran coup »
Posted By dissent 6 months, 3 weeks ago in NewsUS President Barack Obama made a major gesture of conciliation to Iran on Thursday when he admitted US involvement in the 1953 coup which overthrew the government of Prime Minister Mohammad Mossadegh.
"In the middle of the Cold War, the United States played a role in the overthrow of a democratically elected Iranian government," Obama said in a keynote speech to the Muslim world in Cairo.
It was the first time a serving US president had publicly admitted American involvement in the coup.
The US Central Intelligence Agency, with British backing, masterminded the coup after Mossadegh nationalised the oil industry, run until then by the British-owned Anglo-Iranian Oil Company.
For many Iranians, the coup demonstrated duplicity by the United States, which presented itself as a defender of freedom but did not hesitate to use underhand methods to get rid of a democratically elected government to suit its own economic and strategic interests.
Washington went on to become the major backer of Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, who was overthrown in the Islamic revolution of 1979.
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dissent6 months, 3 weeks ago
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this is, in my opinion, one of two primary points that are pivotal to all our problems in the middle east. as all other problems have stemmed from them, including saddam, iraq, 9/11, bin laden, afghanistan, taliban, pakistan, nuclearization, muslim extremism, war, terrorism, etc.
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the other is israel. and both of them are of our own making-
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truthiness6 months, 3 weeks ago
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while overthrowing iran certainly contributed to most of that list, I would not go so far as to call it the primary source for the al queda related ones which stem from our supporting bin laden against russia in afghanistan and then abandoning him when we were done.
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and if you mean the mere fact that we are aligned with israel has created anger towards us, then that is probably true.. but there is no reason for us not to be allies.. perhaps we should have been a little less unconditional in that friendship. but why would we not be allies with the only democracy in the ME? esp during the cold war? Personally, if I were Clinton, I would have strong armed both sides into a 2 state peace treaty.. but I also would have known better than to have an affair in the white house so..-
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dissent6 months, 3 weeks ago
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"the mere fact that we are aligned with israel has created anger towards us, then that is probably true.. "
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i personally do not regard that fact as "mere" nor would the entire muslim world or the rest of the world for that matter. that "mere" encompasses a lot of death, destruction, suffering, misery and money.
hardly .... "mere"-
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truthiness6 months, 3 weeks ago
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our alliance with israel is not responsible for all the deaths in the arab-israeli wars.
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I know there are many enemies of israel who like to believe israel could not have survived without the alliance, but those of us who know the stories of how israel faired in the days before the alliance (prior to independence and during the first war) from first hand accounts know this is not true.
my point with the word 'mere' was that some were angry with the US solely due to the fact of the alliance and for no other reason. whether you believe that is justified is not the point (here), I just meant that it was the sole reason.-
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dissent6 months, 3 weeks ago
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"mere" has maintained the oppression of the palestinian people by israel
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"On the other hand, it is also undeniable that the Palestinian people – Muslims and Christians – have suffered in pursuit of a homeland. For more than sixty years they have endured the pain of dislocation. Many wait in refugee camps in the West Bank, Gaza, and neighboring lands for a life of peace and security that they have never been able to lead. They endure the daily humiliations – large and small – that come with occupation. So let there be no doubt: the situation for the Palestinian people is intolerable. America will not turn our backs on the legitimate Palestinian aspiration for dignity, opportunity, and a state of their own."
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Endoscopy6 months, 3 weeks ago
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So when is he going to admit what President Jimmy Carter openly avowed to other world leaders that he was going to take down the Shah. That is what gave us the present regime of terrorists.
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This was a major turning point. Putting the more rabid clerics in charge of the nation.-
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PapaWolf6 months, 3 weeks ago
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endo
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>>President Jimmy Carter openly avowed to other world leaders that he was going to take down the Shah.
Having known a member of the Shah's general staff, you're a bit mistaken here. Carter offered the Shah assistance. The Shah turned him down because he didn't want to unleash his military on the population.
As he & his son told me, they could've stopped Khomeni, but there would've been a LOT of civilian casualties.
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truthiness6 months, 3 weeks ago
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"Rather than remain trapped in the past, I've made it clear to Iran's leaders and people that my country is prepared to move forward. The question now is not what Iran is against, but rather what future it wants to build."
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-From the speech
this is why Obama is a master of rhetoric and politics. not only did he confess to our mistake, and pint out theirs (the hostage taking) but he then opened the door to diplomacy on the world stage. The ball is now in their court. If Iran refuses to make a diplomatic gesture now, they appear to be the hostile jerks. Not only that, but he did it as the Iranian elections approach and the Presidential challenger is suggesting more open relations with the US.-
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dissent6 months, 3 weeks ago
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"The ball is now in their court. If Iran refuses to make a diplomatic gesture now, they appear to be the hostile jerks."
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eh.... iran has repeatedly requested and been open to diplomacy. we're the one's who've not only appeared to be but have actually been the hostile jerks
"Iranian Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki Tuesday repeated that the imbroglio surrounding Tehran's nuclear program would only be solved through political consultation and diplomatic approaches." (source: china.org.cn)
"Iran 'open' to US dialogue - Saturday, July 19, 2008
Mottaki indicated that he supported moves to improve relaltions with the US Iran says it is prepared to have dialogue with the United States on establishing a US interests section in Iran and beginning direct flights between the two countries." (source: al jazeera)
"IRAN: Ahmadinejad Open to U.S. Talks, Denounces Threats - September 24, 2008
Ahmadinejad stressed that the U.S. government unilaterally severed its relations with Iran in 1979. "We have always been in favour of relations with other countries. The U.S. government thought by cutting ties they can punish Iran and prevent the development of out nation, but we are now stronger and more developed than the past," he said.
"Today we seek relations, but relations based on justice and mutual respect," he added." (source: ips)
if anyone has a problem with the sources, and i expect a few of the peabrains on propeller will, consider this.... if this is being reported in their news why isn't it being reported in ours? and before you rush off into a diatribe about propaganda, consider that omission and suppression of information is also propaganda.-
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truthiness6 months, 3 weeks ago
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regardless of the veracity of those statements, The US President, a new US President, going to Cairo and making this statement creates a new situation.. Obama knows this, which is why he is a political and rhetorical master. remember, most of the public have very short memories even when they are exposed to all the facts.
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dissent6 months, 3 weeks ago
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"remember, most of the public have very short memories even when they are exposed to all the facts."
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i don't know, i can't say i recall a time when the public has ever been exposed to all the facts
but yes, short memories.... that's what concerns me most about obama's speech. the actions to support them better not be far behind
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jordan116 months, 3 weeks ago
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dissent6 months, 3 weeks ago
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i agree. words, even the right words, can still be very deceptive.
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obama's words, an admission of guilt, imply a promise to make amends. promises though are easily made and can just as easily have people let their guards down and return to their zzzz's. when it comes time to deliver on those promises vigilance is what matters. failure to deliver only postpones and is complicit in further compounding animosity. actions true to words promised are what count -
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jordan116 months, 3 weeks ago
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Obama was, after all, merely saying out loud what everybody already knew. >>>>
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Silence is consent. Obama broke the silence, which sends the message that it is recognized as wrong. Knowing it happened, and recognizing it was wrong, are two different things. This is a 'wonder.'-
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dissent6 months, 3 weeks ago
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this should only be the beginning. question now is, how does iran deal with it? forgiveness? remuneration? there may still be strong words yet to come but all to hopefully clear the air. they lived for 25 years under a brutal dictatorship installed by us while we drained as much oil as we could. bring in the lawyers.... or then again, maybe not. :|
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tadair9196 months, 3 weeks ago
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even though this was already "known" by those who read their ugly history and tend to seek out truth, there were still many who didn't know.
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you know, they don't really teach this stuff in school.
i am glad obama brought this to the attention to the rest of the slumbering public. believe me, this is just the tip of an enormous iceburg of things that we'd rather not talk about.-
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dissent6 months, 3 weeks ago
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"you know, they don't really teach this stuff in school."
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indoctrination and propaganda by omission. yes, there is so much dirt that needs to be aired and cleared. will it happen? it seems unlikely. but then..... i never expected this either-
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Mdiar6 months, 3 weeks ago
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Mdiar6 months, 3 weeks ago
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I actually first learned of this somewhere around junior year of high school, though it was reiterated in college.
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Didn't really learn the others, other than the Lincoln was a hero part. Even that, though, is blunted with the actions he took at times (particularly in the first months of the conflict).
I'd rather like to know where your knowledge of what schools teach nowadays comes from. Personal experience in the schools of today, or something else?-
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tadair9196 months, 3 weeks ago
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i'd like to think that i've learned a few things growing up in spite of (not because of) school. mostly reading books, literature, maybe a documentary with an open mind. The internet has helped a lot. But that is not to say that the internet doesn't have its' large share of disinformation.
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I can say with certainty that what they taught me in elementary school was very much a lie. College, was infinitely better. But in Economics, for example, they teach us Keynesian Economics, which is proving itself to be a terrible theory, after all. It was the Austrian economists who predicted this demise, and offer the best solutions. (Return to sound, honest money.) Google "Peter Schiff was Right" or better yet, visit mises.org for a free virtual library of several great books.
There are few books about Lincoln that may surprise you. Lincoln was a tyrant, very similar to the Bush/Cheney administration today. Read "The Real Lincoln" by Thomas DeLorenzo. Here is an article about it: http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig2/w-williams1.html Also, amazon.com lets you peruse through some of the pages.
The main thing, is keep questioning authority. Do not assume your teacher was right, or your parents are right. And definitely do not assume that your government is right.-
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Mdiar6 months, 3 weeks ago
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In my experience in high school, at least, there was encouragement of the independent research you describe. I truthfully remember little of elementary school but what I do remember came with stipulations of things like Washington didn't really cut down the cherry tree and things of that nature, though I think the story was still told for a purpose of teaching to not lie.
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I do know about Lincoln and how he could easily be considered a tyrant. I suppose growing up in a region that was near the south made my learning experience about him a bit more truthful, though it was still generally positive. However, the declaration of martial law and how he kept states such as Maryland in the Union were taught. We were allowed to decide if it was justified or not for ourselves, though.
The main thing, is keep questioning authority. Do not assume your teacher was right, or your parents are right. And definitely do not assume that your government is right.
I usually do. Though I do know I'm always right ;)
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flyonthewallzz6 months, 3 weeks ago
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Mdiar:
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I guess you missed "Duck and Cover".
The sirens sounded different than the fire drill bells.
The fire drills where kind of fun... we all went out side, and it usually took the teachers a while to get us to settle down, once we got back into the class rooms. We where in no hurry to come back inside.
When the sirens went off.... we all had to get under our desks with our hands over our heads.
We where glad to come out..and usually very quite afterwords.
I imagine your school experience was different.-
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tadair9196 months, 3 weeks ago
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funny. i just read an article offering a "Triangle of Life" to be infinitely safer than the "Duck and Cover," that we were taught growing up. Whereas, if the building collapses, then everyone under a desk is crushed to death, where others who survive are found in "voids" where the ceilings could not collapse on. Read about it here: http://omega.twoday.net/stories/308957/
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Here is the Red Cross disagreeing with these claims http://www.bpaonline.org/Emergencyprep/arc-on-doug...
So, who knows. Maybe a hybrid method will be taught in the future. -
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Mdiar6 months, 3 weeks ago
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Fire drills were awesome. Tornado drills always leave hurt knees.
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I know that the educational experiences are quite different now as opposed to then. That was the general point of my post; assumptions about education from 20 years ago aren't as valid today. I hardly recognize what is being taught in schools on sitcoms on TV Land, for instance, like Andy Griffith. I've been told by those who would know, though, that is what they actually learned.-
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Mdiar6 months, 3 weeks ago
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I figured you weren't more then 35, but 20 years ago is a figure I basically pulled out of my ass. I can't necessarily say how many differences are around compared to 10 years ago. But I do know that things didn't seem that incorrect in high school, though I tended to take higher level history courses. Or so my own research has shown, generally, little is that incorrect. A few things were wrong but they seemed really because some teachers aren't that smart.
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Grumpy63528Comment removed: Spammer, Hard Banned7 Replies
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FrankHummel6 months, 3 weeks ago
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I must say, I never understand how it is that many people evidently attach "great significance" to an "admission" by a public leader of something that IS WELL-KNOWN, and HAS LONG BEEN WELL-KNOWN. I mean, like it is some kind of "major concession" for "our" leadership to speak the simple truth.
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Is that perhaps an indication of just how far this nation has descended into the abyss??-
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vor6 months, 3 weeks ago
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That was my first thought on this. This was well known if not officially admitted. A disgraceful chapter in our history. Many Americans are completely ignorant of what occured. This leaves them befuddled by why there is so much animosity from Iran particularly the older generations. But they haven't forgotten the Shah. Remember these people chose a repressive, fundamentalist rule over his leadership.
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dissent6 months, 3 weeks ago
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"But they haven't forgotten the Shah. Remember these people chose a repressive, fundamentalist rule over his leadership."
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the shah's was one of the most brutal and repressive leaderships of the 20th century. in the end there were just too many protesters and demonstrators and not enough secret police to torture and execute them all. look it up. with any luck you'll find grumpy there learning a thing or two as well-
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lloydm656 months, 3 weeks ago
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Wow! what a terrible country America was,is, and always will be.We can't all be black Muslims,and Muslims wannabe's.I stand by my country because it once was,and will be again three years down the road the greatest nation on earth.Yes we helped Ben Laden when he was fighting for his country,but today we fight him,because he's no longer a warrior,but a wanton murderer.I personally think at this moment he is a beaten piece of rotting flesh whether he's alive or dead.The sun will a little brighter around the world when he's in hell.
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oldslowjim6 months, 3 weeks ago
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While it may be fun to analyze past events, you must include everything in the analysis. It's been a long time since the Shah was overthrown. What has happened since that time? Your own argument and list of problems indicate that simple vengeance is the ultimate reason for the list of ills that plague the middle east.
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Actually, more than simple vengeance. Vengeance to such a degree that all of the middle east's (and other places also) nations and leaders have been willing to forgo social and economic development comparable to the rest of the world because of one "mistake" in Iran that was rectified a long time ago. Can you imagine what the world would be like if the US had carried vengeance that far with England and Germany after the War of Independence?
Your analysis totally misses the effect of radical Islam and how it has contributed to the problems in the area. You might elucidate a little on how events in a Persian nation have boiled over to include Arab nations also. Do you reckon religion might have had an impact?-
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dissent6 months, 3 weeks ago
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"... one "mistake" in Iran that was rectified a long time ago"
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overthrowing a democratically elected president, installing a puppet dictator, brutalizing a people and siphoning off the country's oil is not "one." i've already listed four, count them FOUR... in that sentence alone
none of these "mistakes" have EVER been rectified. not a long time, not today, not ever
your analysis fails to acknowledge how our interventionist policy of imperial adventure has radicalized muslims thus creating many of the problems in the area that have mostly been problems, there and here, for us
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BB646 months, 3 weeks ago
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During the Cold War things were done on both sides. If you remember the Soviets were supplying weapons to almost every Arab nation. Their "elected" government was very likely becoming a Soviet ally and becoming communist. That would have been very bad, look at Afghanistan.
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We did make mistakes in Iran. We should have supported the Shah. Had we attacked Iran after they attacked our embassy in 1979, destroying the base of radical Islam, we would have a very different Middle East. But that would have meant Carter growing a pair. Look at Iraq in 1990. Had we taken him out then and help establish a stable government, Iran would have a much more difficult time exporting terror and building the bomb.-
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worldwarrior26 months, 3 weeks ago
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Supplying weapons is completely different then putting thousands of armed troops in a foreign country to occupy it for personal or financial gain. We are a imperialist nation, trying to spread our influence around the world, no if's, and's or but's. Other countries, including the former Soviet Union, realized that doesn't work, as people will naturally rebel and grow to dispise the foreign invaders. America, The Nation of Gullible Idiots, is slow to learn this lesson.
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most_reasonable6 months, 3 weeks ago
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Speaking about a PAIR Reagan gained the Whitehouse on the promise that he wouldn't be a cut and run president. After the murder of the US Marines in Lebanon, a greater tragedy since we were forewarned about the bombing by the Israelis, Reagan CUT-AND-RAN. On the way out the French had pointed out the terrorist camps were the attack had come from and planned to attack the base with the US, but at the last minute, Reagan's staff stopped the attack on the newly formed group HEZBOLA.
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most_reasonable6 months, 3 weeks ago
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From the article:
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Relations between the two countries have been severed ever since the revolution's aftermath and former president George W. Bush made the Tehran government part of his "axis of evil" with Saddam Hussein's Iraq and Stalinist North Korea.
Actually the original prepared statement was "axis of hate", which apparently is still true.
Why didn't Obama mention the constant murder of the Shiites by the Sunnis or the long suffering ad unfulfilled desire of the Kurds to have a land of their own without domination and subjugation. -
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worldwarrior26 months, 3 weeks ago
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Just one country in the very long list of countries we have stuck our big noses in the internal affairs of, in an effort to control other governments for personal or financial gain. The most recent, besides Iraq and Afghanistan would be the Reagan, Bu$h, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Neogroponte, etc. involvement in the our illegal covert wars in C. America during the 1980's. Where Cheney and the other U.S. war criminals produced a CIA torture manual that was to be used on priests, nuns, aid workers and anyone else trying to help the poor peasants in the region, who were considered subversives by the brutal right wing dictatorships the U.S. was supporting. The U.S. has a very dark past around the world. Its about time American's pull their heads out of the sand and come to terms why much of the world hates us.
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mr30066 months, 3 weeks ago
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Israel will show it has a nuclear force very soon.... much sooner than the peace lovers will want. There will be no letting Iran get nuclear weapons. Israel will see to that. Print this out, mark this date. When it happens, look at this post. Israel cannot afford to let Iran finish the bomb process. They are God's chosen people and will do what they need to do, with or without the US "permission". It is coming. There is no talking to Iran, They have vowed to destroy Israel and that seals their doom.
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djn3nunez36 months, 3 weeks ago
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"Ancient History": U.S. Conduct in the Middle East Since World War II and the Folly of Intervention
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by Sheldon L. Richman
Sheldon L. Richman is senior editor at the Cato Institute.
Published on August 16, 1991
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=1019=1 -
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jsccbaker6 months, 3 weeks ago
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If it was a secret, then Obama would be the only President that would be telling terrorist sponsoring nations about it, just like blabbing about CIA practices, which is treason and federal charges should be made. If it wasn't secret, then it wasn't an admission of anything, just more eloquent fluff with no substance...
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PapaWolf6 months, 3 weeks ago
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jsccbaker
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how could it be a secret to the very people to whom it happened?
and who was the one blabbing about CIA practices - the man who STOPPED torture, or the man who OUTED a CIA operative?
Ane even tho it wasn't a secret - admitting the problem is 1/2 the battle. -
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dissent6 months, 3 weeks ago
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let's just say it's OUR 500 pound gorilla that's been sitting in the room for 56 years now that iran has been trying to bring to our attention but we've been pretending it's not there because to do that just doesn't suit our interests. that's pretty much how all of our foreign policy for more than half a century has worked. and seeing as we've got the bigger voice (our media) we've been pretty good at shouting down the little guys who scream (or at least try to) when we step all over them.
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why do you think iran had a revolution and we had a hostage crisis? where do you think all that came from? let me guess... because they hate us for our "freedoms"......
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melinum6 months, 3 weeks ago
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US inteferance and in Middle east was not just a US policy alone but along with western allies and support other times along with eastern block specailly Russia like let push the Button together. the next revalation of US past policy in Middle east should be the master piece plan of US and British involvment and the plot behind Iran's so called Islamic revolution to keep the powerfull out of gaining independent
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of persion Gulf from western powers and that's why he had to go out of power and low cost oil to flow from middle east by brining in the Mullahs into power to self destruct the nation's development.British ruled more than 400 years in Iran. at the time of Elizabeth 11, the Birtish ruled 75 pecent of the world continent including the U.S how did The Ayatollah come into power just by himself and not the propoganda of BBC radio and also how his followers as managed to stay in power 10,000 times worse than alleged Shah crucifying the Iranians by any means who opposed them. who really is DR.Yazdi who was a student in at the time the US and moved along to secure and overseeing the Khomiene regime would replace the Shah regime.so let's bring about the true and real stories behind Iran's 1979 revolution
that is important for the rest of the already know world to know and lets long live with true democracy around the world
with a US leadership admitting mistakes in the past and start a new begining after realising the passage in the past was wrong to approach to be in today's the world leadership. -
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melinum6 months, 3 weeks ago
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this was just an announcment of 56 YEARS ago of US involvment of US foregin policy AND how about THE 1979 IRAN"S Islamic revolution US involvment to get rid Shah of Iran and bring in the MULLAH'S for self destruction and slow down the develoment
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of the Iran nation. the crimes committed by the Islamic's regime after the revolution against the Iranian nation is untold and it should be a 30 years policy revelation and not a 56 years ago policy since most people in the middle east knew already the very old staff but need to know the latest revealed stories and these Mullahs's hands will come out of the sleeve so quickly.-
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dissent6 months, 3 weeks ago
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"this was just an announcment of 56 YEARS ago of US involvment of US foregin policy AND how about THE 1979 IRAN"S Islamic revolution US involvment to get rid Shah of Iran"
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you're not too good at seeing how one thing leads to another are you?
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sampahkuli6 months, 3 weeks ago
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Whateveer the US may or may not say now is purely rhetoric towards damage control of damage beyond control or repair.
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Muslims and Arabs do not have to embrace "democracy". Thats a Greek word suited to Europeans all of who have differing ideas of how it is to be practice or applied. If god wanted us all to be Greeks he would have made uss so.
Israel is a pus in the side of humanity. Visiting Buchanwald will not convince anyone that the Holoucast is our business. It is a European problem. Obama should act not speak. If the Jews are so humane then killing Palestinian children with impunity after dislodging their families form their homes on the basis of a fable called the bible makes the bible equally as useless as the concept of democracy.
Leave Arabs and Muslims to be who they are and we can all leave in peace. Take the Europeans who call themselves Israelis and do with them what you have done to them for centuries. -
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tudabar6 months, 3 weeks ago
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Israel has shown time and time again that they do not want peace with the Arab world, particularly with the Palistinians.
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Instead, they want pieces of illegal land taken with impunity
and with our muted silence and encouragement from the U. S. Congress who wants campaign money from the American Israeli
Pulitical Action committee. The U. S. Congress is not for Peace or Justice....only Israel's favor. What a shameful situation that has gone on since the 1967 War where Israel
pre-empted a war and stole land and continues to establish
communities in those lands.....their oppression is horrendeous and sooner or later what goes round will come around to the
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Icantwait6 months, 3 weeks ago
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My Fellow Americans: Are we still living in the Past? Living in the Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda era. I thought this was the moving forward era. Isn't that what you're Arab Buddy preaches. America is evil, Israel is evil, England is evil, we don't deserve to live in the same world as the Taliban. So, what if it is true that every single Nationality in the World made this Country Great. That does not matter, what matters is the fact that we need countries to like us and then blow us up. So, what if we have been good to those Countries and they decided to take American Hostages, or Blow up the World Trade Center twice. It is just a little misunderstanding. Yes, we could have made those Countries into a great Countries if we would have taken them over and gave them an education.
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Yes, Obama we know you want the whole wide world to love you but you are losing ground in this Country. Your Policies Stink, Your Manners Stink, Your Speeches Stink, Your Begging Our Enemies to Like You Stink, The Idiots that Support Your Regime Stink, Your Hate for America and It's Citizens Stink, and Yes, it all boils down to You Stink.
What is with all these szar appointments, I personally think twenty is a little bit of over kill. This is America call them Welfare Recipients, which is what they are, You're giving them a Tax Payer Salary and they have no real jobs. They are your friends that got you elected. So, call them what you should. Low Lives and Blood Suckers. The Real American
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