Comments for Bring-Your-Gun-to-Church-Day -- Politics Daily »
Posted By TimALoftis 6 months, 2 weeks ago in Political NewsIn Louisville, Kentucky, pastor Ken Pagano preaches the good news of the Gospel -- and of the Second Amendment. Pagano has invited his flock to bring firearms to church as part of the church community's Independence Day celebration.
The Assemblies of God pastor's plans for the event are undeterred by the recent killing of abortion doctor George Tiller in the lobby of his church in Wichita. Pagano says his agenda is to promote gun safety, and all weapons brought into New Bethel Church must be unloaded.
Pagano's plan may indicate the rise of a new phenomenon in American religion: the NRA Christian. But even putting aside the Sermon on the Mount and such biblical imagery as the beating of swords into plowshares, one must question whether an embrace of guns is the best way to claim a national identity and celebrate our patriotism -- in or out of church. After all, the First Amendment protects freedom of religion; the Thirteenth Amendment outlaws slavery; the Nineteenth Amendment extends voting rights to women. Aren't any of these worthy of a July 4th picnic?
What disturbs me most about Pagano's bring-your-gun-to-church-day, however, is not the thought of Independence Day revelers enjoying a Second Amendment theme party, but the advent of NRA Christian evangelism. The murder of George Tiller was particularly eerie because he was shot and killed in his church. Christian churches have long been considered places of peace, and sanctuaries from societal violence. When this presumption of sanctuary becomes violated -- from Archbishop Thomas Becket's murder in 1170 in Canterbury Cathedral to the 1980 slaying of Salvadorian Archbishop Oscar Romero -- there is a sense that our worship has been desecrated. Francis Ford Coppola's juxtapositions of a wedding and a christening with ruthless violence in the Godfather films were brilliantly powerful for just this reason.
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Goppy6 months, 2 weeks ago
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The great thing about America is that we have individual freedom.
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The downside to that individual freedom is that the elites of ignorance can rise to level of spokesperson for others ... equally proud of their ignorance.
Look - we've all seen this before.
The KKK bases their hatred on the Bible and Christianity.
The Pro-Life (pro-egg) people base their rationale for murdering Dr Tiller on the Bible and Christianity.
There are many Christians who base their hatred of Barack Obama under the guise that he's a Muslim - thereby re-connecting to the Crusades of the Middle-Ages.
There are Christians who base their hatred of fully 10% (an estimate) of our American population because they are homosexual - even though Christ NEVER mentioned this - and any other references in the Bible are oblique.
There are Christians who base their hatred of Catholics on the Bible and Christianity - they even had a TV evangelist ... John Haggee call Catholics w h o r e s.
Christians USED to use the Bible to validate their hatred for Jews ... but a recent change in Biblical interpretation have since linked them in a desire for preeminence in Israel.
Christians have even taken to promoting GREED and UNLIMITED WEALTH as the TRUE GOAL of The Bible and Christianity ... as in the "Health Wealth" movement ... most notable in the TV Evangelist, Joel Osteen - who I supposed needed some way to excuse the millions upon millions of dollars that these TV Evangelos acquire.
The fact is ... people have fears, biases, bigotries, paranoias, ... and they are very, very territorial.
Depending on how strong these dementias are in people - they will seek out sources to validate these predilections.
So - it does not surprise me in the least to learn of yet another link between Modern American Christianity ... Guns ... and Paranoia.
I for one have no problem with these people pursuing their hare-brained hobbys.
But in just the same way ... well adjusted, patriotic Americans can continue to be entertained by these wacky goof balls ... for being so easily diverted from what is true and righteous in America.
And of course, that would be ... Truth, Justice, Individual Enlightenment - all of which lead to Peaceful Progress for our nation ... and a richly led life.
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DaneL6 months, 2 weeks ago
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I didn't think any of you libs go to church, do you? So why do you care? If you don't like guns in church, don't become a member of that congregation. Times are not the same. Large numbers of people congregating are a perfect target for some extremist. Where I live there is not much of need to carry a gun, except out in the wild. People here have a different mindset. We know and help our neighbors. The only people we would ever have a problem with are politicians that live 2,000 miles away, trying to tell us how to live.
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pokydoke6 months, 2 weeks ago
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The mindset of people where you live is not different from the mind set of people here where I live. We don't have to lock our doors, we don't have to lock our cars when we go into a store. Guns are for hunting not self defense. We get along with our neighbors even though they may be conservatives, Christian, Jew, Muslim, same sex couple just married or even if they just moved here from Wyoming.
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PsychoHosebeastComment removed: Spammer, Abusive4 Replies
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Goppy6 months, 2 weeks ago
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See ... there you go!
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The Ann Coulter version of the world.
Please see my Profile Page.
I explain all this to you DaneL ... how y'all perverted Christianity ... ripped all the spirituality out of it and turned it into a mockery of money changers.
What can I say ... you may go to church ... but it's not a Christian Church ... it's a Republican Party Rally of Bitterness.
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dissent6 months, 2 weeks ago
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that would be the same phil donahue who got his ass fired for not having multiple orgasms of over bush's crock-o-sh*t war.
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yeah, like he's got credibility issues, huh? i didn't care much for donahue before that but afterwards he's a hero in my books. one of the few in the mainstream media who did the right thing
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PsychoHosebeastComment removed: Spammer, Abusive1 Reply
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sonofreasonComment removed: Hard Banned
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Codi69346 months, 2 weeks ago
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It is funny how the media went crazy over the abortion doctor being shot. But little to no coverage about the 2 Army recruiters shot by a covert to Islam. The doctor will be idealized as a hero doing his job, but will the recruiters be seen as heroes? Will they recieve Purple Hearts for the wounds? In the mind of the attacker ,he was attacking an enemy. An act of war, but our society is too worried about a doctor and not the enemy we have been fighting for years. We are going back to the ideal that terrorist attacks are an act of crime , not an act of war. We are setting ourselves up for another fall, with all the sheeples follow along.
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Goppy6 months, 2 weeks ago
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Sorry ... but this story was already dis-proven ... by Bill O'Reilly himself
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Here.
http://www.propeller.com/story/2009/06/05/bill-ore...
So ... either you are too woefully un-informed to participate on these threads ... and therefore should remain on the sidelines and observe how grownups debate ....
.... OR ....
You are WILLFULLY promoting a debunked story ... for the purpose of promoting DIS-INFORMATION.
In other words ... Lying.
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Are you a Lair, Codi6934?
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Codi69346 months, 2 weeks ago
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How many times have YOU heard about the abortion dr's death vs the recruiters death? Has there been any mention of awarding them Purple Hearts? I have not heard, and I think of myself a pretty informed type guy. One network does not cover the whole MSM outlet. So, I will except your apology now.
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Goppy6 months, 2 weeks ago
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I don't typically watch TV talk shows.
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I'm not stupid enough to believe Bill O'Reilly is anything but a blow-hard wanting to make a buck.
I also don't think that that Olberman fellow is anything but a O'Reilly wanna-be ... but in the back of my mind ... I'm glad that there is an equal and opposite push to the numerous Right Wing Propagandist about the nation.
But on Propeller, I did see that CNN did NUMEROUS episodes on the Arkansas shooting ... with appropriate condolences.
Whereas ... The Right Wing Media ... SHAMELESSLY ... tried to turn the Arkansas misfortune into a Ratings Ploy.
Where I come from .... that's called Moral Vacancy.
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So ... no apology.
None warranted.
None offered.
But I do pity you.
Will that suffice?
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jakesguile6 months, 2 weeks ago
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I copy paste Goppy's response.
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'Member that Spadecaller quote list? "A neocon is someone who refuses to change his mind or change the subject"
We proved him wrong but he just keeps harping on the same story as if we hadn't said anything. -
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Codi69346 months, 2 weeks ago
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I don't want your pity. I was not the one shot. This was an attack by an enemy against the US military. Was it covered as much as the abortion dr, no! One or two news outlet does count as coverage. Good for CNN and Fox for bringing this event to the public. But where was everyone else? Is this treated as an act of war, no. Are the soldiers going to recieve Purple Hearts, no one has said yet. But they do decieve them. We are at war with an enemy that will not stop and our President does not see that. Again, I don't want your pity, but I do pity the public that can not see we have an enemy are are not willing to admit it and will do nothing to stop them.
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jakesguile6 months, 2 weeks ago
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Exactly Codi...
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1st. off, NOBODY supports the killing of army people, even those psychopaths that do those unspeakable 3-year old rapes that you could argue sorta deserve it. Even they deserve to live.
2nd: NOT ALL ATTACKS BY "Not-Americans" CONSTITUTE AN ACT OF WAR, Anybody who thinks otherwise is an IDIOT.
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Progressive6 months, 2 weeks ago
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FTA:
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"Francis Ford Coppola's juxtapositions of a wedding and a christening with ruthless violence in the Godfather films were brilliantly powerful for just this reason."
So was the juxtaposition of the hitman confessing his venial sins and omitting any mention of his mortal sins in the confessional, while the gangsters were gunning each other down. -
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david_nwpa6 months, 2 weeks ago
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Bring all the guns to church you want. Just leave the ammo at home. After all, this nation was founded on violence, which was endorsed by religion. Either Christianize the heathen Native Americans or kill em for Cheesus. Yes, it is a stupid concept, but every settler ever set foot on US soil knows it's true.
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greenmac6 months, 2 weeks ago
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The love of guns in the US is so uncivilized .... why the love affair with the gun is my question. Is society so screwed up that the gun is a necessity... or are you hung up on the second amendment that was written years ago that you fear any form of control. Guns in parks...guns in church and possibly guns at school.... this does not look like progress when it comes to civilization it looks more like the road is leading to being uncivilized. Yes we have guns in Canada ...we hunt and target shoot.... do we see the need to pack a side arm when we go to church...no.
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sinophil496 months, 2 weeks ago
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I notice this Pagano fella told everyone to bring a gun to church, BUT he asked everyone to leave them unloaded.
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Could it be he feels that a loaded gun is --- dangerous?
The whole purpose of a gun is to fire-off the ammunition inside. Without ammo, a gun is just an expensive ornament. -
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icono16 months, 2 weeks ago
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Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution
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A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
Kentucky Constitution Section 1
All men are, by nature, free and equal, and have certain inherent and inalienable rights, among which may be reckoned: ... Seventh: The right to bear arms in defense of themselves and of the State, subject to the power of the General Assembly to enact laws to prevent persons from carrying concealed weapons.
JOHN ADAMS (Signed Declaration of Independence, Continental Congress delegate, 1st Vice President, 2nd President):
"Arms in the hands of citizens (may) be used at individual discretion...in private self-defense..." 1788(A Defense of the Constitution of the Government of the USA, p.471)
Highly unusual behavior even for 'Christians' but not against the law.
But, to solve this little social curiosity, I think Vlad Lenin had a good idea;
A system of licensing and registration is the perfect device to deny gun ownership to the bourgeoisie.
-- Vladimir Ilyich Lenin.
Could the NRA Christians be another form of the evil bourgeoisie?
So the US and Ky Governments had better get it together and pass restrictions i.e., rationed freedoms(another Vlad Lenin favorite;"It is true that liberty is precious; so precious that it must be carefully rationed." -- Vladimir Ilyich Lenin)
,about carrying an unloaded gun in a church.
However others have had some insights into 'rationed freedoms' especially of the gun variety;
“One man with a gun can control 100 without one. ”
~Vladimir Lenin
‘‘The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subjected people to carry arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subjected peoples to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing.”
~ Adolph Hitler
“Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun.”
~Mao Tse-tung
But WWJD?-
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