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Posted by: Candida 6 months, 3 weeks ago

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Candida6 months, 3 weeks ago

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FTA: "Since then, some residents of Jewish communal settlements in the Galilee fear that the region's substantial Arab population might seek to buy property in their communities, where the standard of living is far higher, causing Jews to move out."

Interesting. Sounds like block-busting to me. I wonder how those Arabs would "cause" the Jews to move out. Perhaps the same way black families used to "cause" the racist white families to move out of whole city blocks.

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    dissent6 months, 3 weeks ago
    
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    your point?
    
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      Edmar146 months, 3 weeks ago
      
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      You mean you don't get the point? It's not OK for Jews to not want arabs to live near them, but the Arabs can discriminate any way that they please. After all, isn't it perfectly acceptable for Arabs to live in Israel, but not acceptable for Jewish settlers to live on the West Bank? Jews aren't allowed to own land in Lebanon or Jordan. They can't even enter 15 of the 22 Arab countries surrounding Israel. And you don't get the point?
      
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        dissent6 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        It's not OK for Jews to not want arabs to live near them, but the Arabs can discriminate any way that they please.
        
        when we pay over 3 billion a year to the saudis, veto all un resolutions against them and hand over 30 billion dollars in military hardware while boasting about how "democratic" and "moral," how "free" and "open" the sauds are...... then i may just think you have a point.
        
        jews can become israeli citizens without ever having visited much less lived in israel. they can become israeli citizens without having any family there at all. who else in the world is granted such privilege based on ethnicity?
        
        and yet the palestinians are not even permitted their right of return as the un has insisted on since modern day israel's inception. so please, tell me again how hard done by the jews are that israeli arabs should not even be allowed to own land in a neighborhood of jews
        
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        Edmar146 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        You need your history lesson again. There is no right of return. The land was never theirs. The land was occupied, conquered territory for 2000 years. There was never a country called Palestine nor was there ever an autonomous government for a country called Palestine. Most of the plots of land had no deeds.
        You actually think that it is ok for 55 Muslim nations to discriminate against every non Muslim within it's borders, but little Israel can't have a policy on Jews. Take your choice Dissent. Either a Palestinian homeland for all Palestinians, or a right of return to the handful of those Palestinians who are still alive and left their homes during the 1948 War. Also, please tell us how the Arabs should compensate the 800,000 Jews that were forced out of their ancestral homelands between 1948 and 1953. Should they have the right of compensation? When Israel was established, it absorbed all of the refugees from the Arab world. Not a single Palestinian has been repatriated by any Arab country. But most importantly, the "Palestinians" that you claim have a right of return, weren't Palestinians at all. Until 1916, the entire population of Palestine was under 250,000. And that included Muslims, Jews and Christians. As the Jews began to immigrate into Palestine after 1916, they created job opportunities to Arabs living in areas surrounding Palestine. As the Jews imported eucalyptus trees from Australia and began to drain the swampland which covered most of the one time breadbasket areas of the Jezreel and Hula valleys, the need for laborers became great. The Jewish population increased 3 fold between 1916 and 1932 while the arab population increased 5 fold. Most of the "Palestinians" who left during the 1948 war weren't Palestinians at all. The public records of the UN contain the census reports of both the Ottomans and the British during the Mandate period. I would suggest that you read the writings of Mark Twain (non Jew) about his visit to Palestine in 1869. Almost every writer who visited the area in the 1800's noted the lack of population and the depressive state of the land and particularly how neglected it was. If Israel didn't exist today, the land would still be malarial infested swampland. No one would care about this piece of real estate any more than they did for the last 2000 years before Israel was established.
        
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        dissent6 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        You need your history lesson again. There is no right of return.
        
        un resolutions aren't your specialty are they edmar?
        
        here's what the un has to say about it....
        
        "3236 (XXIX). Question of Palestine
        
        The General Assembly,
        
        Having considered the question of Palestine,
        
        Having heard the statement of the Palestine Liberation Organization, the representative of the Palestinian people,(*)
        
        Having also heard other statements made during the debate,
        
        Deeply concerned that no just solution to the problem of Palestine has yet been achieved and recognizing that the problem of Palestine continues to endanger international peace and security,
        
        Recognizing that the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations,
        
        Expressing its grave concern that the Palestinian people has been prevented from enjoying its inalienable rights, in particular its right to self-determination,
        
        Guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter,
        
        Recalling its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,
        
        1. Reaffirms the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:
        1. (a) The right to self-determination without external interference;
        2. (b) The right to national independence and sovereignty;
        2. Reaffirms also the inalienable right of the Palestinians to return to their homes and property from which they have been displaced and uprooted, and calls for their return;
        3. Emphasizes that full respect for and the realization of these inalienable rights of the Palestinian people are indispensable for the solution of the question of Palestine;
        4. Recognizes that the Palestinian people is a principal party in the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East;
        5. Further recognizes the right of the Palestinian people to regain its rights by all means in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations;
        6. Appeals to all States and international organizations to extend their support to the Palestinian people in its struggle to restore its rights, in accordance with the Charter;
        7. Requests the Secretary-General to establish contacts with the Palestine Liberation Organization on all matters concerning the question of Palestine;
        8. Requests the Secretary-General to report to the General Assembly at its thirtieth session on the implementation of the present resolution;
        9. Decides to include the item entitled "Question of Palestine" in the provisional agenda of its thirtieth session.
        
        * Official Records of the General Assembly, Twenty-ninth Session, Plenary Meetings, 2282nd meeting, para. 3-83."
        
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Genera...
        
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        Edmar146 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        BTW, Jerusalem and Hebron were mainly Jewish cities until 1948. The Jordanians expelled all of the Jews in 1948 and erected a fence around the entire Old City, forbidding Jews from entering, living or praying in Old Jerusalem. Not a single Jew was ever compensated for their property that was confiscated by the Jordanians.
        
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        dissent6 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        "If I were an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. We have taken their country. Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs. We come from Israel, it is true, but 2,000 years ago, and what is that to them? There has been anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country."
        
        david ben gurion, israel's first prime minister
        
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    Candida6 months, 3 weeks ago
    
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    Locky12: "In Arab countries, like Saudi Arabia, there are certain areas you can't even VISIT let alone live, unless you're a muslim."
    
    Do you condone it?
    
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      Thinker226 months, 3 weeks ago
      
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      It seems to me that Locky tried to answer your question where you've 'wondered' how those Arabs would "cause" the Jews to move out, Candida.
      
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        Candida6 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        He wrote: "In Arab countries, like Saudi Arabia, there are certain areas you can't even VISIT let alone live, unless you're a muslim."
        
        Are you saying that Jews would move out of a community when Arabs move in because Arab countries like Saudi Arabia exclude non-Muslims from certain areas? In other words, they want to make sure that they are no better than the Saudis?
        
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        Thinker226 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        > Are you saying that Jews would move out of a community when Arabs move in because Arab countries like Saudi Arabia exclude non-Muslims from certain areas?
        
        No, I'm saying that one should not complain about some Jews not willing to live next to Arabs while ignoring the fact that Jews are not allowed to enter some Arab countries even as tourists.
        
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    alamintalib6 months, 3 weeks ago
    
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    Another example of someone who believes everything they see on television. Mecca is the only place non-Muslims can't go and that is for religious purposes.
    
    Don't apply your US ghetto experiences to Arab countries, it shows your racism is international. You must have watched "Training Day" , "Colors" and "The Warriors" too many times.
    
    Non-Muslim Americans are treated BETTER than Muslims from other countries. Americans walk in UNIFORM with no harassment.I have been and lived in the Gulf countries. I speak from experience. As a matter of fact, I just left 120+ plus degree weather 4 days ago so my experience and knowledge is current.
    
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      Thinker226 months, 3 weeks ago
      
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      >Another example of someone who believes everything they see on television. Mecca is the only place non-Muslims can't go and that is for religious purposes.
      
      Can you list ALL places in Saudi Arabia the JEWS can go?
      
      When you're done please consider that there are places in Israel where Jews can not go. The most famous one is the Temple Mount, the holiest site for every Jew, just like Mecca for the Muslims. The Jews are not allowed there but the Arabs are. Arabs are allowed to ANY place in Israel.
      
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        alamintalib6 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        I pass question back to you,because, honestly, I have never been to a place in the Gulf countries where it is a concern what your religion is. So I charge you to tell US the names of these neighborhoods or cities.
        
        And frankly, where in Saudi would a Jew want to go? I mean, there are some there working at businesses and in the military there and they are only secular. But where would a religious Jew want to go? Honestly. Be frank, please if you mean for this dialog to be productive.
        
        Now, I can tell you many places in the world where it does not matter WHO you are that you don't want to be, especially at night. I tell you what, Saudi is not one of them. Show me articles of Jews being killed in Saudi or persecuted in the Gulf region.
        
        Now, the article is about Israel experiencing what I went trough growing up in the south just yesterday in history. I would like to stay on that subject
        
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        Edmar146 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        Jewish businessmen are not allowed to enter Saudi Arabia. Jewish employees of companies that do business with Saudi Arabia are not allowed to enter Saudi Arabia. A friend of mine is an engineer and works for a well known company. He was denied a visa to Saudi Arabia as part of his company's team because he was Jewish. The company was told to get a non Jewish engineer to replace him. So, tell us, since there are 55 Muslim countries in the world who insist on maintaining their Muslim identities, why should Israel have to live up to a different standard than they do? You want to be shown where the Jews are persecuted in the Gulf region? Arab countries expelled 800,000 Jews between the years 1948 and 1953 without compensation to any of them. There are no Jews left in the Gulf region to persecute anymore. A religious Jew wouldn't want to enter Saudi Arabia, but a professional Jew working for his company who does business with the Saudis would want to enter Saudi Arabia.
        
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        alamintalib6 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        This article is not about people maintaining their identity. I am not against the lady wanting her children raised on the principles she believes in. I believe and practice that same principle , so I cherish it.
        
        All I am looking at is the irony that I witnessed as a black man in the south. If a Jewish person, or white person or blue collar worker moves in to my neighborhood, I don't believe the neighborhood has gone to hell.
        
        Read my comments, I only responded to an off the subject comment. I never gave any approval or disapproval to the actions of people in the article.
        
        And I tell you ,I know of Jewish people working for companies right now. I am in the Gulf right now myself working. I am telling you about what I see now. I know Arab Jews and not just Jewish,orthodox as well. I have seen the kosher butcher signs in Hebrew from the street next to a business sign in Arabic. I know someone whos daughter went to school in Israel just a few years ago and tried to come back to her Arabic home but had to stay there and serve in the military 2 years.
        
        There are places where Arab Jews, Christians and Muslims live together on a daily basis. I have been there and breathe the air as I witnessed it. So I don't need to relate to you a story someone told me. I have surety and soundness of my knowedge of this.
        
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        Thinker226 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        > I know Arab Jews and not just Jewish,orthodox as well.
        
        With all due respect there are no Arab Jews just like there are no Japanese Indians. There are ethnic Jews who came from or live in Arab countries. There are ethnic Arabs living in Israel. Nevertheless, the former are Jews and the latter are Arabs. Living in an Arab country does not make one an Arab just like living in Israel does not make one a Jew.
        
        > I have seen the kosher butcher signs in Hebrew from the street next to a business sign in Arabic.
        
        So? It happens in many countries on the planet including the US, France, Germany, Morocco and, yes, Israel.
        
        > I know someone whos daughter went to school in Israel just a few years ago and tried to come back to her Arabic home but had to stay there and serve in the military 2 years.
        
        You should try to sell this story to someone who does not have a clue... You see, to serve in the Israeli Army one has to be JEWISH (here goes her ARAB home) and to be a citizen of Israel (here goes the story about "returning to her home").
        
        > There are places where Arab Jews, Christians and Muslims live together on a daily basis.
        
        You're confusing between ETHNICITY and RELIGION here. Yes, there are many places where (religious) Jews, Christians and Muslims live together. There are places where (ethnic) Jews, Arabs, Germans and Turks live together as well. There are no places where the Arab majority and non-Arab minorities have the same equal rights guaranteed by the state laws.
        
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        alamintalib6 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        I was trying to summarize an off topic discussion. I am fully aware of the Ethic and religious differences.
        
        As a matter of fact, the associate I was telling you about is a Moroccan Jew. As a Jew his is given Israeli citizenship. That is how she was able to go to school there. You can't tell them from any other Moroccan. I am telling you what I know.
        No Arab Jew? Do you know Ofra Haza? Her family is from Yemen. They migrated to Israel. The same place most of the Saudis are from. They have been Jewish since before Islam. They are still there practicing Judaism and speaking Arabic. They wear the same clothes and you can not tell them apart from the Muslims. In many ways they are considered from amongst the original tribes. They have much respect in Israel.
        
        I am telling you what I have seen. I can get technical on what makes a person Arab if you like but I don't feel it is necessary. I can get technical about what makes a person Jewish but I don't think that is necessary either. All of this is off subject
        
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        Edmar146 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        They are called Sephardic Jews, not Arab Jews.
        
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        alamintalib6 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        Wrong! The Sephardic Jews are the type who are like Paula Abduls father (note "Abdul"). If you want to continue, get the info correct first. They are the ones like my friend in Morocco. Many of them came during the Inquisition of Ferdenand and Isabella. All the religious groups who did not convert to Christianity at that time, left Spain and became known as "Mariscos"
        
        Should I continue? I got that from the top of my head. I don't just throw things out there. I try to teach and learn.
        
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        Thinker226 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        >I was telling you about is a Moroccan Jew.
        
        So this person (just like Ofra Haza) is a Jew, not an Arab. As I've already explained living in Morocco or in Yemen does not make someone an Arab just like living in Israel does not make one a Jew.
        
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        alamintalib6 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        You are tailoring your arguments switching between the ethnic and religious Jew? Don't do that. You can confuse the people who don't know
        
        These Jews in Yemen have a serious history. I remember during the first Gulf war and many of the Christians were speaking of "Babylon" rising because Babylon was in present day Iraq. Well, these Yemeni Jews are from Babylon.
        
        They are Arabized. Just like Moroccans, Egyptians and the like. You can't be correct on this. I know this history. And history is on my side in this exchange.
        
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        Thinker226 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        > They are Arabized. Just like Moroccans, Egyptians and the like. You can't be correct on this. I know this history. And history is on my side in this exchange.
        
        I'm sorry to disappoint you here but the "Moroccans, Egyptians and the like" ARE Arabs because these places (and some other) were conquered by the Arabs more than 1000 years ago and most of their population was exterminated. You may read about it here, for example:
        
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquest_of_Eg...
        
        Today's Palestinian Arabs are identical to the Arabs of Syria as well as the majority of Jordanian Arabs. These people, however, are NOT Greeks.
        
        The Yemeni Jews as well as Jews from other Middle Eastern communities (these people are collectively referred as Mizrahim (the Easterners)) are from the place we call Palestine now. They look differrent than Yemeni Arabs, by the way.
        
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        Candida6 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        Thinker22: "With all due respect there are no Arab Jews"
        
        How do you know that? I could understand it if you had said there are no Muslim Jews because you can't belong to two religions at the same time (at least not these two), but why couldn't an Arab choose Judaism as his/her religion? There are Christian Arabs, so why couldn't there be Arab Jews? Are you saying that being a Jew is determined purely by bloodline?
        
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        Natureboy6 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        Much as Edmar14 and his ilk will assert that "there are no Palestinian people, "thinker" seeks to perform the same verbal genocide against the Mizrahim-
        
        Behold the Jews that don't exist according to "thinker" -
        
        http://www.jews-for-allah.org/Jews-not-for-Judaism...
        
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        Edmar146 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        There are no Palestinian people. There was never a country called Palestine- EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!! The area actually was a part of Syria, but regardless of who or what, it has always been a conquered territory, not nation. Newsflash- the last time this piece of land had an autonomous government with the status of a nation before 1922 (the creation of Jordan) and 1948 (creation of Israel) was.............. You guessed it- Israel, 2000 years ago. After the 1948 war, Jordan annexed the West Bank, which didn't exist before the war (as it was captured territory by the Jordanians) and Egypt annexed the Gaza strip. Since everything east of the Jordan river was Jordan and everything west of the river became Israel, what became the West Bank was part of Jordan and the Gaza became part of Egypt, where were the Palestinians? What part was Palestine? The term "Palestinian" didn't exist before 1962. So, exactly who are the Palestinians?
        
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        alamintalib6 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        Again, Let me tell something else. I speak Spanish and Arabic. The Arabic word for Palestine is "Filasteen". There is no "p" in Arabic. Look up the "Philistines" in the Bible before there were things called countries. Look up the story of "Sampson" and find out this war of "Palestinians and Israelites" has been going on since before Jesus.
        
        Just like Jesus name was not Jesus during his time. No on called him that. There is no "j" in Hebrew. I studied Hebrew as well. Normally "y" is used. His name was "Yeshua".
        
        You are allowing "English" to allow you to sound uninformed. Becoming a student of history and language helps.
        
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        Thinker226 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        > Look up the Filasteens in the Bible ...
        
        Yes, look up Filasteens (Philistines) in the Bible and tell us what today's Palestinians have in common with the people called 'Plishtim' in the Bible. They speak different language, they have a different religion, they eat different meals, they wear different clothes, they sing different songs...
        
        In addition, you may consider that the people called Plishtim in the Bible were Creteans (essentially Greeks). Today's Palestinians are Arabs.
        
        > Becoming a student of history and language helps.
        
        Very much so...
        
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        alamintalib6 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        Well, that's why they are "Arabized", meaning the language was accepted. The true Arab is from the Arabian peninsula.
        
        If you wish to follow your argument, stop calling the Palestinians Arabs then.
        
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        Thinker226 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        > The true Arab is from the Arabian peninsula.
        
        Palestinian Arabs are 'true' Arabs, my friend. They are NOT Greeks.
        
        > If you wish to follow your argument, stop calling the Palestinians Arabs then.
        
        How do you want the Palestinian Arabs to be called? If you wish to follow your argument start by PROVING that the Palestinians are NOT Arabs.
        
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        Candida6 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        Edmar14: "There are no Palestinian people. There was never a country called Palestine- EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!! "
        
        Well, then I guess there are no Gypsies either. Someone should tell them that they don't exist.
        
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        Natureboy6 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        "Well, then I guess there are no Gypsies either. Someone should tell them that they don't exist."
        
        If Edmar14 were around sixty years ago, he would have said exactly that, as he led them to the showers.
        
        "Genocide, shmenocide, I can't be exterminating them if they don't exist!"
        
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        Thinker226 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        I wonder if you're really THAT dumb or if you only pretend to be one, Natureboy...
        
        I wonder if you really don't understand that by telling us about "Jews for Allah" or "Jews fo Jesus" or "Jews for Lenin" you're proving my point that being a Jew DOES NOT necessarily mean PRACTICING JUDAISM. Yes, there are Jews practicing other religions but practicing Islam or Christianity DOES NOT make one an Arab or a Russian.
        
        THERE ARE NO ARAB JEWS, Natureboy. There are Jews and there are Arabs. One can convert from one religion to another but one can not switch his ethnicity.
        
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        alamintalib6 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        If you follow that argument of ethnicity, then you exclude all those that died in Auschwitz and every other European and Eurasian Jew. They are not of the 12 tribes. The are all converts. Do you think they spoke Yiddish during Moses time? Its a German Jewish language. They are full Europe.
        
        Don't switch between ethnic and religious because you will exclude many or most who occupy Israel and died during WWII.
        
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        Natureboy6 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        Thinker is just playing the Zionist-racist game of Ashkenazim uber alles.
        
        Of course, there are Ashkenazi Jews, Mizrahi Jews, Ethiopian Jews. Here in New Mexico, there are tombstones hundreds of years old with stars of David on them - tombstones of Spanish Jews who came here fleeing persecution by the Catholics.
        
        But that idea apparently screws with "Thinker's" brand of Zionism, i.e., Kosher white supremacy.
        
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        Thinker226 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        > Of course, there are Ashkenazi Jews, Mizrahi Jews, Ethiopian Jews.
        
        Yes, there are... and all these people are Jews. NOT Arabs. Just like the Russians from Moscow, Siberia or California are still Russians, not Chinese.
        
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        Thinker226 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        > If you follow that argument of ethnicity, then you exclude all those that died in Auschwitz and every other European and Eurasian Jew. They are not of the 12 tribes. The are all converts.
        
        If you really believe that all those that died in Auschwitz were "converts" then you'll have to agree that they did not try to escape from the Nazis because there would be no difference in the LOOKS between the "converted" Jews and non-Jews. Conversion does not change one's appearance.
        
        The truth, however, is that the Jews LOOK differently (you may recall their long noses, their dark eyes and curly hair) from the native populace of the European countries where they've lived for hundreds of years. The Nazis and other anti-Semites did and do find Jews by their LOOKS.
        
        No, they did not speak Yiddish during Moses time. They spoke Hebrew then and they speak Hebrew today.
        
        > Don't switch between ethnic and religious ...
        
        I do not "switch", my friend. I'm preventing you from trying to confuse the two. Ethnicity and religion are two diffrent things.
        
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        Candida6 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        Thinker22: "I wonder if you're really THAT dumb or if you only pretend to be one, Natureboy..."
        
        The correct answer to that is: neither.
        
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        Thinker226 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        >Are you saying that being a Jew is determined purely by bloodline?
        
        To understand it better you should consider that the Jews are A PEOPLE, AN ETHNICITY. Arabs are another ethnicity. Japanese are still another ethnicity. An Arab Jew is akin to a Japanese Indian. One can be an Indian or he/she can be a Japanese. There is a possibility that a person can be born from parents one of whom is a Japanese and the other is Indian. This person is of a mixed ethnicity but he/she is not a "Japanese Indian".
        
        The Jewish people have their own language, their own culture, their own history going back 5000 years and yes, their own religion. So do Japanese. Are you saying that being a Japanese is determined purely by bloodline?
        
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        Candida6 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        Let me understand this. So if a person born to Japanese parents in America grows up, he/she forever remains Japanese and cannot be American?
        
        Jewish people have their own language, their own culture, their own history and their own religion. You say that's what makes them Jews. What about the secular Jews living in America who are indistinguishable from the rest of Americans, know little of their culture and don't speak Hebrew. Are they still Jews?
        
        I was born in Europe in a country with its own language, it's own culture, and its own history, but I've lived most of my life in Canada and am only a Canadian citizen. Are you telling me that I'm not really a Canadian?
        
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        Thinker226 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        > So if a person born to Japanese parents in America grows up, he/she forever remains Japanese and cannot be American?
        
        No. This person will be an American national of Japanese ethnicity. All American nationals are of different ethnicities but there is no American ethnicity so no one can claim it.
        
        > Are you telling me that I'm not really a Canadian?
        
        No, I'm saying that you should educate yourself in order to understand the differences between ETHNICITY, NATIONALITY and RELIGION. You will be amazed to discover that the same person can be a Canadian citizen, an ethnic Chinese and a Christian all at the same time.
        
        > What about the secular Jews living in America who are indistinguishable from the rest of Americans, know little of their culture and don't speak Hebrew. Are they still Jews?
        
        To the same degree secular Japanese living in America who are indistinguishable from the rest of Americans, know little of their culture and don't speak Japanese still are Japanese... but you've answered your own question by describing these "secular Jews living in America" as Jews.
        
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        Candida6 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        Thinker22: "You will be amazed to discover that the same person can be a Canadian citizen, an ethnic Chinese and a Christian all at the same time."
        
        But not an ethnic Arab and a Jew all at the same time?
        
        "ethnicity [(eth-nis-uh-tee)]
        Identity with or membership in a particular racial, national, or cultural group and observance of that group's customs, beliefs, and language.
        Note: Many minority groups in the United States maintain strong ethnic identity; especially in cities, immigrants are often attracted to ethnic communities established by people from their own country, communities in which many traditional cultural features are maintained. (See melting pot.)
        The American Heritage® New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition
        Copyright © 2005 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
        Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved."
        
        OK. Let's see. If I observe Canadian customs and beliefs and speak English, that doesn't make me a Canadian "ethnicity," but a secular Jew, who lives in America, doesn't speak Hebrew and doesn't observe the Jewish customs and beliefs is still a Jew? Why?
        
        How about my children? Would their ethnicity be Canadian? For how many generations would the Japanese remain Japanese "ethnicity." As long as they have Japanese features? Forever?
        
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        Thinker226 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        >But not an ethnic Arab and a Jew all at the same time?
        
        Not an ETHNIC Arab and an ETHNIC Jew at the came time, Candida. An ethnic Arab can, in theory, convert to Judaism and become a CONVERTED Jew, however. Such conversions are extremely rare, however, for several reasons. Judaism doscourages conversions from other religions and according to Islam conversion to other religions is punishable by death.
        
        >If I observe Canadian customs and beliefs and speak English, that doesn't make me a Canadian "ethnicity," but a secular Jew, who lives in America, doesn't speak Hebrew and doesn't observe the Jewish customs and beliefs is still a Jew? Why?
        
        For the very same reasons observing Canadian customs and beliefs and speaking English does not change your original ethnicity and does not make you an "ethnic Canadian", Candida.
        
        >How about my children? Would their ethnicity be Canadian? For how many generations would the Japanese remain Japanese "ethnicity." As long as they have Japanese features? Forever?
        
        Your children will carry their parents' ethnicity and if ethnicities of parents are mixed (see melting pot) for many generations then, eventually, the ethnic features of their ancestors will be lost. Usually, it takes many hundreds of years for a unique ethnicitty to develop. As examples, you may consider the Chinese, the Japanese, the Indians, the Jews... All these peoples existed for thousands of years as unique ethnicities having their own languages, customs, cultures, etc.
        
        Living in Japan and even speaking Japanese language and eating Japanese food will not make you a Japanese, Candida. Only if your children will marry Japanese and their children will do the same and if this process will continue for several generation will your great- grndchildren become undistinguishable from the ethnic Japanese.
        
        Is it clear this time?
        
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        Candida6 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        No, it's still not clear. What are the ethnic characteristics of the secular Jews in America that make them ethnic Jews? What are my ethnic characteristics that preclude me from being a Canadian? I look like, talk like, walk like a Canadian, and as they say, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.
        
        For argument's sake, suppose I was born in Poland from a German father and Hungarian mother with some Slavic ancestry thrown in, and now I'm indistinguishable from the other Canadians, what ethnicity am I?
        
        My point is that ethnicity is such a loose concept that it seems foolish to use it for anything other than organizing festivities.
        
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        Thinker226 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        > What are the ethnic characteristics of the secular Jews in America that make them ethnic Jews?
        
        Well, if you believe that these people are Jews you should be capable of answering this question. If, however, you DO NOT believe that these people are Jews you should nor refer to them as Jews. I can, of course, start showing you articles about genetic code differences which are common to Jews, etc. but I doubt it makes much sense to continue this. Either you beleive that secular Jews in America are Jews and this is the reason you refer to these people as Jews or you DO NOT think that these people are Jews in which case you should not refer to them as Jews.
        
        > What are my ethnic characteristics that preclude me from being a Canadian? I look like, talk like, walk like a Canadian.
        
        What are the characteristic of a Toyota that preclude it from being a car? I've answered your question already, Candida. You ARE a Canadian national of German-Hungarian ethnicity and (I suppose) a Christian... all at the same time. One DOES NOT preclude the other as nationality (citizenship), ethnicity and religion are THREE DIFFERENT THINGS.
        
        > My point is that ethnicity is such a loose concept that it seems foolish to use it for anything other than organizing festivities.
        
        In some places (like Canada, the US, Australia, New Zealand and some other) it is loose as people of many ethnicities live there and mix on a daily basis. In other places ( like Japan, Iran, Sudan, Saudi Arabia and some other Arab countries, Russia, Israel) it is not.
        
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        Candida6 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        To me, Jew is someone whose religion is Judaism. It is the ethnic part I don't understand. As far as I know, even secular Jews can immigrate into Israel, no questions asked, so for Israel, they are Jews, and that's why I asked about them. I can't tell them apart from the other Americans.
        
        You say: "I can, of course, start showing you articles about genetic code differences which are common to Jews,"
        
        Now that I do understand. So it is the bloodline after all.
        
        (BTW, you left out the Slavs from my ethnicity, and no, I'm not a Christian.)
        
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        Thinker226 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        > To me, Jew is someone whose religion is Judaism. It is the ethnic part I don't understand. As far as I know, even secular Jews can immigrate into Israel, no questions asked, so for Israel, they are Jews, and that's why I asked about them. I can't tell them apart from the other Americans.
        
        According to you secular Jews do not exist as their religion is NOT Judaism. Was Karl Marx a Jew, in your opinion? Was Genrikh Yagoda who's name is regularly brought up here by Hyperbola a Jew?
        
        > Now that I do understand. So it is the bloodline after all.
        
        It's more than a bloodlne. It's culture, it's national identity ("Veliki Russki Narod or "the great Russian people", "Das Deutsche Folk", Rzeczpospolita Ludowa, etc.), it's common language (in this case, Hebrew), it's history going back thousands of years...
        
        > ..no, I'm not a Christian.
        
        Sounds interesting for someone of German-Hungarian heritage. Both Germans and Jungarians are Christians.
        
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        Candida6 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        Thinker22: "Was Karl Marx a Jew,i n your opinion?"
        
        I don't know. For Hitler he would have been because Hitler was big on bloodline, but for me he was if he considered himself to be one. I've never checked. I know even less about Yagoda's religion or ethnicity.
        
        "Sounds interesting for someone of German-Hungarian heritage. Both Germans and Jungarians are Christians."
        
        I just made up those parents for argument's sake to show how flimsy a concept ethnicity is.
        
        You have designated me as German-Hungarian ethnicity with a German father and Hungarian mother, but you deny that Arab Jews exist. What ethnicity would be a person with an Arab father and Jewish mother? I've seen couples on TV where one is an Israeli Jew and the other is Palestinian. What ethnicity will their children be? I actually know a person whose father is Jewish and mother is Indian (or Hindu if we are talking about religion), and her own religion is Catholic. What ethnicity is she?
        
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        Thinker226 months, 2 weeks ago
        
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        > I don't know.
        
        Well, no one of those who know including all Marx' biographers has any doubts about it. Marx WAS a Jew just like Charlie Chaplin, Albert Einstein and many millions of secular Jews in Europe, US, Canada and other places. Even YOU refer to them as 'secular Jews'.
        
        > I just made up those parents for argument's sake to show how flimsy a concept ethnicity is.
        
        You've shoot yourself in the foot by repeatedly mentioning "secular JEWS" in the US. What makes them Jews, if not their ethnicity, in your opinion?
        
        > You have designated me as German-Hungarian ethnicity with a German father and Hungarian mother, but you deny that Arab Jews exist. What ethnicity would be a person with an Arab father and Jewish mother?
        
        According to Jewish religion such person would be a Jew. Yes, his/her ethnicity would be mixed but such cases are extremely rare exceptions. As I've explained earlier Judaism discourages conversions and does not recognize interfaith marriages. According to Islam conversions to other religions are punishable by death. All this means that descendants of a person born from an one Arab and one Jewish parents will lose their Jewish heritage and their Jewish bloodline will be diluted and forgotten.
        
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        AnteUp6 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        Re: There are no places where the Arab majority and non-Arab minorities have the same equal rights guaranteed by the state laws.
        
        Are they called DEMOCRACIES, Thinker22?
        
        Somehow I think I have heard it said that Israel is
        the only Democracy in the Middle East.
        If that isn't the case just say so - but I do think that
        Americans soothe their pocketbooks when we send
        the annual 3 billion in military aid to Israel, by patting
        themselves on the back for supporting the ONLY
        Democracy in the Middle East.
        
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        Edmar146 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        Do us all a favor- Name any time when the supreme court of any Arab nation over rode the policy of the government. It happens all of the time in Israel and in most cases, it has been to the advantage of the arab minority. Now, name one TRUE democracy other than Israel in the Middle East.
        
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        Thinker226 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        >Re: There are no places where the Arab majority and non-Arab minorities have the same equal rights guaranteed by the state laws.
        
        > Are they called DEMOCRACIES, Thinker22?
        
        Yes, they are called DEMOCRACIES, Ante, and if you do not think that Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East feel free to name other democracies there.
        
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        Candida6 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        Edmar14: "So, tell us, since there are 55 Muslim countries in the world who insist on maintaining their Muslim identities, why should Israel have to live up to a different standard than they do?"
        
        Perhaps because it claims to be a democracy with equal rights to all. Just ask Thinker22, he will tell you.
        
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        Edmar146 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        And that justifies exactly what? You have just raised the bar for Israel and lowered it for the rest of the arab world. And that makes Israel a higher moral value? Guess again, all that means is that you have justified the fact that the Arab world still lives in the 10th century.
        
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        Candida6 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        Should we all lower ourselves to the lowest moral value we find anywhere?
        
        Israel is a racist state practicing apartheid. That would be their business if they presented themselves as such, they are probably not the only ones, but they are hypocrites on top of it. Do I expect them to live up to a higher moral value? Yes, I do. If you present yourself as a saint, you better behave like one.
        
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        Thinker226 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        > I charge you to tell US the names of these neighborhoods or cities.
        
        The answer is simple, NONE. There are no places in Saudi Arabia where Jews can go.
        
        > And frankly, where in Saudi would a Jew want to go?
        
        If you're asking this question you, probably, believe that it's up to me to decide for these people where they would want to go. The answer is "You should ask THEM, not me". In addition, can you tell me (frankly) where in Israel would an Arab (or, rather, a religious Muslim) want to go?
        
        > Show me articles of Jews being killed in Saudi or persecuted in the Gulf region.
        
        I can not. I also can not show you articles about Martians killed in these areas or anywhere else. In both cases the reason is the same: there are no Jews or Martians in Saudi Arabia or the entire Gulf region. I can, however, show you a lot of articles about Jews killed and persecuted in places where THERE WERE (or still ARE) Jews. These places include Syria, Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Sudan...
        
        > ...the article is about Israel experiencing what I went trough growing up in the south just yesterday in history. I would like to stay on that subject.
        
        If you're willing to stay on this subject can you tell me WHO WERE THOSE launching thousands of terrorist attacks against the people of the south and how people of the south reacted to those attacks... if you don't mind, of course.
        
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        Candida6 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        Thinker22: "The answer is simple, NONE. There are no places in Saudi Arabia where Jews can go."
        
        Are you implying that during the first Gulf war and a number of years following it the US army screened its soldiers on the basis of religion?
        
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        Thinker226 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        I'm saying that the Saudis do not allow ANY Jew to enter Saudi Arabia. The US army is NOT the Saudis, with all due respect.
        
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        Candida6 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        But there were US soldiers stationed in Saudi Arabia for years. If the Saudis don't allow any Jews to enter, were the American Jewish soldiers left at home?
        
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        Thinker226 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        >If the Saudis don't allow any Jews to enter, were the American Jewish soldiers left at home?
        
        I've already explained to you that the US Army is NOT the Saudis. Saudi authorities allowed the US Army to be stationed in Saudi Arabia, they DID NOT have the authority to make the decision about each and every individual American soldier. It was up to the US Army to decide WHO will participate in the US forces in Saudi Arabia.
        
        Is it clear enough this time?
        
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        Candida6 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        So the Saudis did allow some Jews to enter?
        
        You should be more careful with absolutes like never, always, none, everywhere, nowhere, all, because one needs to find only one example to the contrary to disprove them.
        
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        Thinker226 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        Go ahead and fond one such example... and I'll gladly agree with you.
        
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        AnteUp6 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        And the "Jewish Only" roads in the West Bank?
        You know Palestinians are restricted from using them, Thinker22.
        
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      Edmar146 months, 3 weeks ago
      
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      Jews aren't even allowed to enter Saudi Arabia nor are they allowed to enter 15 other Arab countries surrounding Israel. Mecca might be the only place that a non Muslim can't go, but all of Saudi Arabia is forbidden to the Jews. Jews can't own land in Jordan or Lebanon. If a second Palestinian state were to come into being on the West Bank, Jews would not be welcome to live there. Yet it is expected that Israel allow arabs to live inside of Israel. And you talk about racism?
      
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        Candida6 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        Edmar14: "If a second Palestinian state were to come into being on the West Bank, Jews would not be welcome to live there."
        
        No danger of that happening any time soon.
        
        "Yet it is expected that Israel allow arabs to live inside of Israel. And you talk about racism?"
        
        The US allowed African-Americans to live inside the US. Did that preclude the possibility of racism?
        
        By the way, you are comparing a hypothetical situation to a factual one. We don't know what an independent Palestine would look like. I'm afraid I won't see it either in my lifetime.
        
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    AnteUp6 months, 3 weeks ago
    
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    The discussion is NOT about Saudi Arabia - it's about the "greatest DEMOCRACY
    in the Midle East" - No?
    Apples and oranges, Locky12.
    
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  Thinker226 months, 3 weeks ago
  
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  >Sounds like block-busting to me. I wonder how those Arabs would "cause" the Jews to move out. Perhaps the same way black families used to "cause" the racist white families...
  
  No, dear... You should look much closer. You should look for the ways the Arabs caused the Jews to move out of Gaza, Hebron, Bethlehem, Nablus, Ramallah... You know that not a single Jew lives in those and many other cities and towns with the Arab majority, don't you?
  
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    AnteUp6 months, 3 weeks ago
    
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    Well, there you go again, Thinker22, trying to smush it all together.
    There are ISRAELI Arabs living IN Israel - NOT the Occupied Territories.
    Then there are Arabs who live in the Occupied Territories, Gaza and the West Bank.
    And please DON'T bring up Sharon's removal of the settlements from Gaza - if it is still totally CONTROLLED by Israeli forces................then it is still OCCUPIED.
    The Arabs in the Occupied Territories are waiting for their sovreignity to
    be finalized while those living within Israel should be entitled to the rights of
    any other Israeli - and why not?
    Yeah - those Arabs - they just get everything they want - huh, Thinker?
    Got the world on a string..........? Get real.
    
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      Edmar146 months, 3 weeks ago
      
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      Gaza is not controlled at all by Israel, and is not occupied territory. The borders between Gaza and Israel are controlled as are most borders in the world. Israel is under no obligation either domestically or under international law to allow a single non-Israeli citizen to enter into Israel. Israel does not, under any international law, have to allow goods or services to enter Gaza through Israel. And Israel does not have to live up to a different standard than arab countries or any other countries in the world have to live up to. For years, East Berlin controlled the border with West Berlin and prevented exchange of population and goods. Yet East Berlin hardly "occupied" West Berlin. The same was true with East and West Germany, and a hundred other countries. Gaza is not controlled by Israel. Hamas controls Gaza. Israel controls it's border with Gaza. That is not occupation according to any international law.
      
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        dissent6 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        Gaza is not controlled at all by Israel, and is not occupied territory. The borders between Gaza and Israel are controlled as are most borders in the world.
        
        israel however completely controlling gaza's coastline and airspace in addition to its borders then marching in for a massacre every once in a while against a people who have no military makes it completely unlike "most borders in the world" and therefore suspiciously not unlike occupation
        
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        Thinker226 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        > israel however completely controlling gaza's coastline and airspace in addition to its borders...
        
        Yes, it does... Don't you think that it is pretty reasonable during a war?
        
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        Edmar146 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        I can guarantee without a doubt that if your neighbor fired rockets at your house and yard, you wouldn't wait 8 years to call in the police to stop it. And if they were not successful in stopping your neighbor, you would take whatever steps you felt were necessary to stop it yourself. I don't know what planet you live on, but most human beings won't wait 8 years to stop an aggressive act that continues on and on. Israel did what any other country would have done, except that no other country in the world would have called their neighbors on their cell phones to get out of Harm's way. Please tell us when and how many times Hamas called the people of Sderot or Ashkelon on their cell phones to let them know that the rockets were going to be fired. You continuously play the Poor Palestinian game. They did it to themselves by firing the rockets and used their own populated areas as a launching pad. Israel never marched in for a massacre. They waited 8 years and then said "enough".
        
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        AnteUp6 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        Yeah - but why did it continue in full force during the year long
        cease fire?
        IMO, to crush, to disable, and to punish an entire region. That and
        to ratchet up the tensions just a little bit more. It is a dangerous game
        they have been playing, risking their own citizens and causing not
        just a little enmity toward us, because of our unwavering support
        for Israel.
        When the kindling finally blossoms to a real live inferno, then
        Israel points to "Arabs acting badly" and says to the world ....SEE!
        What can you do with them? They want to exterminate all Jews!
        
        The story is wearing thin, Thinker22.
        
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        Thinker226 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        > ...why did it continue in full force during the year long
        cease fire?
        
        For several reasons, Ante. First, a cease fire in just that, cease of fire having nothing to do with changes in strategy and deployment of the forces.
        
        Second, you may not know it but the "year old cease fire" ended two days after its beginning because Palestinians decided to launch several Kassam rockets into Israel.
        
        Third, because more than 90 such rockets were launched into Israel during the so- called "year long cease fire".
        
        >Israel points to "Arabs acting badly" and says to the world ....SEE!
        What can you do with them? They want to exterminate all Jews!
        
        Did you read the Hamas Charter lately, Ante? If not read it. I can guarantee you that it's not the Israelis who wrote this facinating document:
        
        http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp
        
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        Candida6 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        The people of Gaza are under an invisible Israeli dome from which bombs drop every once in a while.
        
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        Edmar146 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        The people of Israel are under an invisible dome from which rockets are fired into their cities on a regular basis.
        
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        Candida6 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        Israel is under a dome? Who controls their air space? Who controls their borders?
        
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        dissent6 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        exactly. israel has OUR f16s and OUR apache helicopters and ALL of palestinian airspace. the palestinians have home-made high-school project rockets, some tunnels and a checkpoint queue. how dare they
        
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        AnteUp6 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        Right, dissent - That's probably why Israel calls them ROUTINE incursions.
        
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        dissent6 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        israel arent occupiers, they're more like.... consultants.
        
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        AnteUp6 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        OMG! Edmar14 -
        
        BORDERS?? Like the sand on the beaches that form the Gaza coast
        is their western border? The Israelis completely control access to Gaza
        from the Mediterranean - that's inbound AND outbound. You are a fisherman
        from Gaza? Of course you can fish in your own stretch of the ocean .........
        but keep in mind - you WILL be risking your life!
        You later reference international law. How much of the Mediterranean
        is - according to international law - supposed to belong to Gaza?
        How many miles might they claim for their use - IF it weren't being
        controlled by the Israeli government?
        
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        Edmar146 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        If the people of Gaza want it to be different, they need to negotiate a better deal. For 30 years there was no need for a fence, border crossings, barrier etc. The people of Gaza worked and played in Israel. Then came the Intifada and the suicide bombers. They did it to themselves. And if you and they aren't smart enough to see that, then they deserve what they get. Today, four Gazans tried to blow up Israeli soldiers using horses as disguises. When the Israeli army saw that the men were planting explosives, they fired at them and killed all four. This is what came out of Gaza, and I quote: "Ismail Haniyeh, who heads Gaza's Hamas government, praised the militants as "martyrs" and said the violence confirmed Israel's "aggressive intentions" toward the Palestinians." Just who started the aggression by planting bombs? I'm embarrassed for the Palestinians that their leaders would make a statement of that kind. It's obvious that no one in Gaza can take any responsibility for their actions, including the government. And you want a Palestinian state? EARN IT.
        
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        Candida6 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        Edmar14: "If the people of Gaza want it to be different, they need to negotiate a better deal."
        
        On their knees.
        
        "When the Israeli army saw that the men were planting explosives, they fired at them and killed all four. "
        
        Where were they planting the explosives? In Gaza or in Israel? If it was in "independent" Gaza, how would they blow up Israeli soldiers there? If it was in Israel, how did they get into Israel with horses and the explosives?
        
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      Thinker226 months, 3 weeks ago
      
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      > There are ISRAELI Arabs living IN Israel - NOT the Occupied Territories.
      Then there are Arabs who live in the Occupied Territories, Gaza and the West Bank...
      
      ...but there are no Jews there. This brings us back to my original question: Do you know that there are Arabs living IN ISRAEL but there are no Jews living under Palestinian Authority or in Gaza?
      
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        AnteUp6 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        According to the news - Hamas is in charge in Gaza...whatever.
        
        I cannot imagine an Israeli citizen who would CHOOSE to live in Gaza -
        but when they did have settlements there?
        From the Jewish Virtual Library online article about the settlements
        of Gaza:
        The largest group of settlements is the Katif bloc, located along the southern Gaza coastline. These settlements block access to the coast from the major Palestinian cities of Khan Yunis and Rafah and cement Israeli control on the Egypt-Gaza border. Another group of settlements (comprising Elei Sinai, Dugit, and Nisanit) are located along Gaza's northern border with Israel, expanding the Israeli presence from the city of Ashkelon (inside Israel) to the edges of Gaza City (the Erez Industrial zone is part of this bloc). Netzarim, Kfar Darom, and Morag are strategically located in the heart of the Gaza Strip (along a north-south axis), creating a framework for Israeli control of the area and its main transportation route, and facilitating Israel's ability to divide the Gaza Strip into separate areas and isolate each area's inhabitants. In addition, the settlements control prime agricultural land, some of the area's main aquifers, and approximately one-third of the total Gaza coastline.
        
        Must have been great having them as neighbors - because even
        then................it was all about CONTROL. Control BY and FOR the
        benefit of Israeli Jews - only tough love and living conditions for
        Palestinians.
        
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        Edmar146 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        The interesting part of your post is that Israel removed all of the settlements and all of it's military from Gaza in 2005 as a gesture and to see if they could build a government that could rule them effectively and in peace. Had the people of Gaza run with the ball, they would have set an example by which Israel would have separated themselves from the West Bank as well. But as you can see, the people of Gaza destroyed the most advanced greenhouses in the world that were left to them and they allowed Hamas to gain control. Instead of peace and prosperity, the Gazans got a militant government and Israel got rockets fired into it's cities. And you can't understand why Israel won't give more? You can't be that stupid!!!!
        
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        Thinker226 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        >I cannot imagine an Israeli citizen who would CHOOSE to live in Gaza -
        but when they did have settlements there?
        
        Can you imagine Arab citizens who would CHOOSE to live in Israel? If so it, probably, means that Arabs live in Israel much beter (and safer) than Jews in Gaza. Yes, there were Jewish settlements in Gaza and the Arabs made it look like those settlements were the only reason for Arab violence... just like they make the settlements in the West Bank look like today. Settlements were removed from Gaza and the violence did not stop... but 1.4 million Arabs still live in Israel.
        
        > Must have been great having them as neighbors - because even
        then................it was all about CONTROL. Control BY and FOR the
        benefit of Israeli Jews - only tough love and living conditions for
        Palestinians.
        
        There are no settlements in Gaza anymore. There is no Katif bloc, located along the southern Gaza coastline; there is no Elei Sinai, Dugit, and Nisanit located along Gaza's northern border with Israel; there are no Netzarim, Kfar Darom, and Morag strategically located in the heart of the Gaza Strip... Don't you rejoice, Ante? Aren't you happy for the Palestinians of Gaza? What are you complaining about?
        
        On the other hand, there are 1.4 million Arabs living in Arab settlements (sorry, Arab towns and villages) in and around Jerusalem, in the Galilee and the Northern part of Israel facilitating Arab ability to divide Israel into separate areas, etc. Wold you understand Israelis willing to get rid of them just like the good people of Gaza were willing to get rid of the Jews?
        
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        Candida6 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        Thinker22: "Do you know that there are Arabs living IN ISRAEL but there are no Jews living under Palestinian Authority"
        
        Slippery, slippery, as usual. You didn't say West Bank, you said "under Palestinian Authority" because you know very well that lots of Jews live in the West Bank, but not only their settlements but even their roads are taken out of the control of the Palestinian Authority making life for the Arab population a living hell.
        
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        Thinker226 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        >You didn't say West Bank, you said "under Palestinian Authority"...
        
        Yes, I did, Candida. You see, 1.4 million Arabs live under ISRAELI Government but no Jews live under Palestinian government... and nothing was "taken out of the control of the Palestinian Authority" as the Palestinian Authority was created less than 15 years ago and since then authority was only GIVEN
        
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        Candida6 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        No new settlements in the past 15 years?
        
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        Thinker226 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        > No new settlements in the past 15 years?
        
        Yes, no new settlements built on lands given to the Palestinian Authority during the last 15 years... but,as usual, feel free to PROVE ME WRONG by showing an example of a new settlement built on lands taken FROM the Palestinian Authority.
        
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        Candida6 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        "Israel opened the way for possible expansion of the Efrat settlement by taking control of a nearby West Bank hill of 423 acres. "
        
        "Yesh Din, an Israeli human rights group involved in the Efrat expansion case, said Monday that over the years Israel's government has assigned almost all areas designated as state land to settlements. The group said that is a violation of international law, which requires an occupying power to act for the benefit of the local population. "
        
        http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic...
        
        "Israel's expansion of settlements into Palestinian territory is an "illegal move" that undermines Middle East peace, says Canada's foreign affairs minister."
        
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        Candida6 months, 3 weeks ago
        
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        Here is the link for the second quote:
        http://www.vancouversun.com/News/Expansion+Israeli...
        
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        Thinker226 months, 2 weeks ago
        
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        Let me repeat my statement above, Candida:
        
        > No new settlements built on lands given to the Palestinian Authority during the last 15 years... but,as usual, feel free to PROVE ME WRONG by showing an example of a new settlement built on lands taken FROM the Palestinian Authority.
        
        Please free to show that the lands for Efrat or any other settlements were taken FROM the Palestinian authority. Such lands BY DEFINITION are ONLY lands that were given to the PA in accordance with the Oslo Accords or other official agreements between Israel and the Palestinians. These are NOT all lands that are not officially considered Israeli lands.
        
        Some people (including Canadian ministers) refer to all lands beyond the cease fire lines of 1949 as 'Palestinian territory'. This is wrong and misleading. Not all lands that ARE NOT part of Israel ARE 'Palestinian lands' just like not all lands in your street that do not belong to your neighbor are YOUR lands.
        
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    AnteUp6 months, 3 weeks ago
    
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    Thinker22 ~
    You state that not a single Jew lives in Hebron?
    The world is overflowing with video reports on the treatment of Palestinians
    and international monitors in Hebron at the hands of their Jewish neighbors.
    
    How could you say that?
    
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      Candida6 months, 3 weeks ago
      
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      No Jews in Hebron? Take a look at this article Thinker22, you may find a few.
      
      http://jfjfp.com/?p=1320
      
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  most_reasonable6 months, 3 weeks ago
  
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  "Since then, some residents of Jewish communal settlements in the Galilee fear that the region's substantial Arab population might seek to buy property in their communities"
  
  Selling to a Jew in the Middle East, especially in the West Bank and Gaza is a death sentence.
  
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