Conservatives: 'Public Health Care Option Is The Best, But You Can't Have It' »
Posted By bluetexasvalley 5 months ago in Political NewsThe conservative mantra, for as far back as anyone can recall, is that the government can do no right, and the private sector can do no wrong, thanks to market principles of competition. "Government isn't the solution to our problem - Government is the problem," declared Ronald Reagan.
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bluetexasvalley
I am a 60-plus widow, retired after almost 40 years in the newspaper business. My love of politics was learned, first, from my father, a ...
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bluetexasvalley5 months ago
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FTA:
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Well, that notion has been destroyed when it comes to health insurance.
The leading argument from conservative Republicans and Democrats is that if there is a public option included in any health insurance reform package, it will doom the private industry because it simply will not be able to compete with the government-managed plan.-
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jordan115 months ago
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Candida5 months ago
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bluetexasvalley: "The leading argument from conservative Republicans and Democrats is that if there is a public option included in any health insurance reform package, it will doom the private industry because it simply will not be able to compete with the government-managed plan."
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This argument is even funnier when you consider to whom the government would offer insurance: primarily to those who can't afford or are unable to qualify for private insurance. In other words, the government would insure most of the "uninsurable" and the private sector is still worried that it would not be able to compete. -
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cowboygrandpa5 months ago
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btv:
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FTA
"MCCONNELL: Yeah.
WALLACE: ... to compete against private insurance options. Is there any public plan, as just one of a series of -- on the menu, that you could support?
MCCONNELL: Well, that would mean a government plan that would inevitably put the government between you and your doctor, and there would be no more private insurance.
WALLACE: Why?
MCCONNELL: Because the private insurance people will not be able to compete with a government option.
Whoa! Stop the presses! The Republican leader not only admits that the government can offer a better health insurance option than private industry, but that the principles of competition will go out the window -- that private insurance companies won't do everything they can to offer Americans the best and least inexpensive insurance possible? What happened to private insurance companies being able to do everything better and cheaper than the government? Apparently, according to the Republican leader, they cannot.
Like I said, conservative Democrats are saying the same. Senator Ben Nelson (D-NE) has been all over the place, but at one point said a public option "would be too attractive and would hurt the private insurance plans.""
Quite obviously those who prefer privatised health plans do so because they think sickness and the overriding fear of death is highly profitable.
What does that say about those people ??? That money is more important to them, than the life God gives everyone ???
That only some deserve the benefits of health care while others deserve to die because they are not wealthy enough to afford a doctors care ??
Hmmmmmmmmmmm ???? I just wonder what God thinks of all these wonderfully greedy people who make up lies to sanitize their wretched love of money over mankind.
One hint for them.
All your money won't buy your way out of hell, but it sure might pay for your entry.
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jordan115 months ago
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I am so sick and tired of CONS!!! And I'm sick and tired of democrats trying to kiss their asses! CONS have done NOTHING to address the needs of Americans who pay their GD salaries. All they've done is take the bulk of MILLIONS distributed as pay offs by the insurance industry, while they themselves wallow in the pork afforded them by Americans, including LIFETIME MEDICAL BENEFITS! They're the most obscene bunch of bastards I've ever seen in my lifetime, and their constituents are the stupidest lot of morons on this planet!
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Fear, lies, and a conglomeration of BULL SH*T; that's what CONS offer this country. They don't have ONE idea of their own, and sat around for twelve YEARS doing NOTHING, and since 2006 filibustered every GD bill submitted by democrats or independents. NOW, they're going to nit pick, lie about, and distort this health bill. They have NOTHING of their own. Democrats have the votes. They need to JUST DO IT!-
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Eagle_Eye5 months ago
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())()()()()())()()()()() (Eagle Applauding!)
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Will13135 months ago
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funny France is rated the #1 health care SYSTEM in the world. and they seem to enjoy a fairly high standard of living..
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I have a friend that is a medical headhunter.. he cannot get doctors from Canada to take a job in America.. .UNLESS they wish to learn a special skill.. such as TRAUMA CARE.. they come here to learn how to set up that type of unit.. then return to Canada..-
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Hhussk5 months ago
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funny France is rated the #1 health care SYSTEM in the world. and they seem to enjoy a fairly high standard of living..
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You should know that France's system has lead to heavy tax increases. France is currently in the process of adopting US style health matinence organization tactics. In other words, the French system is going broke.
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alakazam5 months ago
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Okay...so they won't do it the right way?
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If the fact's are in and they won't make the change because it will cost them personally they are to a man corrupt. Time to raise Hell people. We need to pull the plug on K-Street yesterday.
Our Representatives should represent the People. Corporate interest should be far down the list of Fiddles and Industry should have no special status under any circumstance.
Nope...Equal under the Law.
Seems I read that somewhere.-
libsRfunnyComment removed: Hard Banned5 Replies
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TheRealizer5 months ago
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flyonthewallzz5 months ago
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http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2009/sheets...
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"Table 16.1—OUTLAYS FOR HEALTH PROGRAMS:1962–2013"
This is an Excel file from the White House.
It gives a pretty good breakdown on what our government spends on health care and includes numbers for Military, government employees, and Veterans.
It says that the government spent 5.2% of GDP on health care in 2007, If Health care costs total 14% of GDP then the government is already paying more than 37% of it. And this is "Net" not "gross" because Medicare Premiums ($57.2 billion) are left out of the equation...as well as $34.6 billion from Federal Employees Health Benefits (FEHB) contributions.
Taking that into account it appears that the government paid out about 40% of the total health care costs in 2007.
Maybe my math is wrong?...if I subtract the negative numbers I get a payout of $808.6 billion FY2007. If health care cost where 14% of a GDP of $14 trillion ( I checked GDP was %13.8 trillion so that helps my argument) the 14% of GDP number is old and I can not really confirm it.
I realize nobody checks my data, but I can not help myself.
But it appears to me that we have effectively buffered the risk of the for profit industry.
It would not be an issue to me if they where capable of filling the needs of the 45 million folks that fall between the cracks.
Hard working folks that work for themselves or small companies.
I think the issue is two-fold: I believe that it is in the interest of the insurance industry to have a very high "list" price for medical care so that folks can not afford not to have insurance. I think there are a bunch of administrators in the health care industry that are happy with the arrangement. I do not think that the care providers (healers) are among them.
I often wonder: what things would look like if revenue was performance based?
If I built a house and it fell down....chances are I would not get payed.
If I took a trip in a time machine and looked at a person paying a healer with a chicken, they would not give out the best egg layer if the child died.-
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canadianrancher575 months ago
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I have read the first part of your comment numerous times and I think it is starting to soak in,, correct me if I'm wrong but are you saying that the government pays 40% of health care cost or is that 40 % including contributions to medicare and FEHB.
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As for the last part of your comment you bring up some interesting points, given the costs of alot of medical procedures the idea of performance based might not be a bad idea except I think that it would be the doctors not the hospitals that might suffer
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JimBland5 months ago
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It seems to me that the most efficient health care delivery system in the United States is Medicare, with a far smaller percentage going to administrative costs than with the private insurers.
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That being said, wouldn't it make sense and be more productive to enroll every citizen in Medicare?-
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CaptainLucid5 months ago
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The problem is you assume the goal of many private companies is to provide health care. In many cases the goal is to make money. The goal is to collect premiums not to provide care. So as long as you are healthy and giving them money everything is fine. Once you get sick the company tries to find a reason to not provide care.
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Icantwait5 months ago
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My Fellow Americans: I have read enough. Where did all you people come from and what are you doing trying to convince the sane people here in America, Land of the Free and the Brave, that Governments can run anything correctly. Oh, I'm not saying being in charge of running things I'm saying running anything correctly. Isn't there anyone left in this new Looney Bin that values Freedom anymore?
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You talk about Government Health Care like it actually has some value for the tax payers. The Health Care System was operating just fine until the Medical Industry had to charge the working class of people, rich and poor alike, for giving Health Care to those who could not work, (which was fairly ok), and those that chose not to work, (most lay abouts, which was not ok). Then it became free Health Care at the Insured Patients Expense for everyone that visited a Medical Facility that decided not to pay for it. This drove the cost of Health Care Up.
So, what exactly did we have as a result of this free Health Care for the Public Assistance People, (Welfare), Illegal Aliens, and the Truly Needed? We had a mandate by the Government forcing any Medical Facility to give them Free Medical Care and passed the Cost off onto the Legally Insured. This started raising the Cost of all Medical Care since the Government was passing these expenses on to the individuals with the insurance, thus raising Insurance Cost. Therefore making All around Health Care more expensive.
In other words, Competition disappeared and it became a hit or miss proposition. Those people that paid for Health Insurance were getting double billed to pay for those without Health Insurance. So, you might say we have already had National Health Care. The Government was literally forcing the Insured to pay for the uninsured. It isn't working and as a result we pay outrages amounts of the Green Stuff for our any kind of Health Assistance.
We are being Health Care Bankrupted by the 50% of the Population that chooses not to work, not to have Health Insurance, not to Pay for their Health Care Bills, not to pay taxes, not to be a True American. Probably our biggest problem is paying for the people South America could not provide Health Care, jobs, and a decent way of life, so they invaded our country.
Government controled Health Care Means loss of Freedom. They will be able to dictate what you can and can not do in order to insure you don't cause any Health Problems. No smoking, over eating, drinking, partying, activities, (hunting, fishing, tennis), or whatever. Communism Regime Complete. The Real American-
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mesodude5 months ago
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"Where did all you people come from and what are you doing trying to convince the sane people here in America, Land of the Free and the Brave, that Governments can run anything correctly. Oh, I'm not saying being in charge of running things I'm saying running anything correctly. Isn't there anyone left in this new Looney Bin that values Freedom anymore?"
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--But we recently learned that the CIA is flawless, never makes mistakes and never tells lies (according to cons) so we know the government can work perfectly *sometimes* (that is depending on the agency the GOP is pimping to sell it's agenda at any given moment).
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cherev5 months ago
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There is a simple solution to this problem....all you libbies demand that the government fund a health care program and then fund it yourselves through voluntary contributions. You "ultra-generous" people can take care of all those people who can't afford health care.
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Incidently, surveys have shown that we "Cons" contribute far more to charity than do you Libbies.
Bottom line - this isn't about caring for anyone - it's just another scheme to gain more power and take more of our money.-
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Beau78905 months ago
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cherev: "all you libbies demand that the government fund a health care program and then fund it yourselves through voluntary contributions."
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That is exactly the idea behind having a public health program in addition to private insurers, which is the idea Obama proposed during the campaign. Those who choose the public program will contribute.
If you're going to argue that a public health program won't be funded entirely by those contributions, I'll just remind you that no public program is entirely funded by individual contributions.
Why not apply your own logic to war? Since I didn't like our government deposing Saddam, why should I have to pay for it? Will you tell me deposing Saddam benefited us all? So does insuring those who can't afford their own private insurance, since everyone who pays for private insurance subsidizes the uninsured when they receive emergency care--at a far higher cost than we would if the uninsured didn't have to wait until their conditions became emergencies to be treated. -
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cherev5 months ago
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"Incidently, surveys have shown that we "Cons" contribute far more to charity than do you Libbies. "
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As a personal note, most of my charitable donations (in the thousands) go to Vietnam Veterans of America. How about yours, Libbies? -
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mesodude5 months ago
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"There is a simple solution to this problem....all you libbies demand that the government fund a health care program and then fund it yourselves through voluntary contributions."
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--I don't know why you don't you think you deserve the same system your elected officials get (which is subsidized through your tax dollars) but why are you fighting to prevent those who *do* want that for themselves? -
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Georgia505 months ago
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When an article is premised on a lie, then the article fails to escape being a lie.
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Conservatives have never held in principle that government can do no good and that the private sector can do no wrong. Rather, conservatives hold--as did the founding forefathers--that human beings are flawed and so checks, balances, and restraints should be part and parcel of an orderly society. Further, we believe that a republican form of government, an objective code of law before which all stand equal, while not perfect is about the best form of government we can hope for.
It is the liberal extremists who 1) believe their own lies about conservatives, and 2) believe the polar opposite: government can do no wrong, the private sector is inherently evil. Furthermore, liberal extremists reject what conservatives and the founding forefathers believe(d) about basic human nature. Provided you are either a liberal or a criminal, you are inherently good. The only inherently evil individuals in the liberal extremists' paradigm is the conservative.
I do not refer to them as liberal filth for no reason. To the contrary, liberal extremists cannot avoid giving one all the basis necessary for referring to them as they are. -
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Bopi3655 months ago
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The flags are waving and suddenly its my patriotic duty to support for-profit private health care because its the American way.
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Sure
If the Government can't do anything right its because in 8 yrs, they haven't.
I don't see where where bankrupting individuals w/ the current system equates to freedom. It simply maintains the status quo.
I find the concept interesting though, that insurers prefer the high cost of care as a means to frighten people into maintaining coverage or risk losing everything without. Just another way to manipulate the masses.
Even more amusing as to how neocons align themselves w/ the founding fathers As if they are the only true Americans -
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jimdoze5 months ago
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"Whoa! Stop the presses! The Republican leader not only admits that the government can offer a better health insurance option than private industry, but that the principles of competition will go out the window -- that private insurance companies won't do everything they can to offer Americans the best and least inexpensive insurance possible?"
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What a bunch of BULL$HIT!
The private sector does not have the taxing and spending power of the federal government. Therefore, it cannot compete with government-run healthcare. Private companies must pay as they go, or they go out of business. I give you a guarantee, without any fear of legitimate contradiction, that any government plan will absolutely not pay as it goes. Lip service will be given. However, once the camel gets its nose under the tent, that constraint will be gone.
To turn those facts into the notion that private plans are somehow are to be found wanting and government plans are better by comparison is blatant sophistry.-
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quackpot5 months ago
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If you want a pay-as you-go form of government, vote democrat. Pay as you go = "tax and spend".
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Regan: Debt
Bush: Debt
Clinton: Surplus
Bush: Debt
Obama: Too early to tell
The Bush concept of reducing taxes to the wealthy and making up the difference between income and spending by charging it to the unborn is immoral.
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Georgia505 months ago
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If the Demon-crats want to bray endlessly about how much they care about access to medical care, how do they explain the billions of purely pork spending that not only achieves nothing in a general sense, but that rob the health care system of financial resources it might have used to help the poor?
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For that matter, we're still waiting on the Clintons to explain why they turned auditors loose on the health care system (ostensibly to root out fraud) who then proceeded to bilk hospitals and clinics for millions of dollars via regulatory shakedowns over the flimsiest of common, every day back office billing errors that had nothing to do with fraud. -
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Bopi3655 months ago
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"As a personal note, most of my charitable donations (in the thousands) go to Vietnam Veterans of America. How about yours, Libbies?"
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"how do they explain the billions of purely pork spending that not only achieves nothing in a general sense, but that rob the health care system of financial resources it might have used to help the poor?"
I wouldn't have to donate money to Iraqi war vets if Bushco hadn't made that enormous blunder.
And THAT money could have been used for Health care
Your Turn NeoCons -
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harpro2085 months ago
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This past Sunday, the (conservative) Denver Post had an article comparing the US and Canadian health care systems. I'm sure it's online if you wish to view it, I'm quoting the print edition. Taxes: After tax income for Canadians is 82 cents on the dollar. Everyone has government health care. For Americans, after tax income is 81.9 cents, nearly fifty mill;ion uninsured. Bureaucracy- "incompetent government workers" versus corporate greed: 31 cents of every US dollar spent on health care does not go to health care. The Canadian provincial single payer health care system spends 1 cent on the dollar for "administrative" costs. Cost of Canadian system: ten percent of Canada's GDP is spent on health care and everyone's covered. In the US, 17 percent of GDP goes to health care and 15% of the population isn't covered. After an initial outlat, Americans will save trillions over the long term. Medical decisions: In Canada, doctors and patients have complete control over medical decisions. No government involvement. In the US, if you belong to an HMO, you're treatment decisions are vetted by a bureaucrat whose yearly bonus is tied to rejecting medical claims as frequently as possible. Medical care wait times: In Canada, there is no waiting for critical necessary care. There is a delay for specialist surgery in some cases. There is a delay for elective surgery in many cases. In the US, if you're uninsured, hospitals have to treat you if they take federal funds. After you're stabilized, you're on your own. No wait time because no care is given. Don't believe the stories about Canadian health care that begin with "my wifes hairdressers second cousins dog walker once went to Canada and heard the health care was terrible". Canadians, on average, live 2.5 years longer than Americans and have a nearly twenty percent lower infant mortality rate. The mortality rate for all cancers is 181.65 per 100,000 in Canada, in the US, the rate is 197.8 per 100,000. Billions have been spent brainwashing people into believing national health care is bad or too expensive. Just a bunch of corporate propaganda crap. The facts say otherwise.
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