Comments for The Obama Haters’ Silent Enablers - Frank Rich »
Posted By deathray 6 months ago in Political NewsWHEN a Fox News anchor, reacting to his own network’ s surging e-mail traffic, warns urgently on-camera of a rise in hate-filled, “ amped up” Americans who are “ taking the extra step and getting the gun out,” maybe we should listen. He has better sources in that underground than most.
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deathray6 months ago
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here's the link to the oped; i'm trying to help everyone by getting around the advertisements...just consider me your "propeller tivo":
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http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/14/opinion/14rich.h...-
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deathray6 months ago
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so, on to the substance of the oped at hand.
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fta:
"What he reported was this: his e-mail from viewers had “become more and more frightening” in recent months, dating back to the election season. From Wednesday alone, he “could read a hundred” messages spewing “hate that’s not based in fact,” much of it about Barack Obama and some of it sharing the museum gunman’s canard that the president was not a naturally born citizen. These are Americans “out there in a scary place,” Smith said. "
what is it with the level of virtriol rising?
why can't we trust our nation's democratic institutions anymore?
is the threat of violence really the way to live with our fellow americans?-
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Beau78906 months ago
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"what is it with the level of virtriol rising?"
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I suspect many have learned the lessons of the Republican political strategists beginning with Lee Atwater--vitriol works better than reason. Marketers since Bill Birnbach have known emotional appeals work better than rational ones. And in this day when the Internet has broken down the historical barriers preventing the opinions of the masses from reaching a wider audience, people can select their own "news" sources and ignore others, allowing less factual opinions to proliferate.
"why can't we trust our nation's democratic institutions anymore?"
Since Watergate, the American public has become far more skeptical of the official government story. Sure, there were skeptics before, but again, the Internet has given them far more reach to wider audiences than those who questioned authority had previously.
"is the threat of violence really the way to live with our fellow americans?"
I'll assume that one was rhetorical. ;-)-
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Goppy6 months ago
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Your suspicions have merit, Beau7890.
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And I appreciate your mention of Bill Birnbach and the effectiveness of the emotional appeal in advertising.
Let there me no mistake, both parties use this tool.
As a Centrist, however, I see great differences in the target of the application.
I've noticed that Democrats manipulate emotions to further what might be called, issues of the conscience. Social Security, Health Care, Medicaid.
Republicans have an interesting tweak on the emotive effort ... their effort is totally FEAR based.
Whereas Democrats say, "Vote for me, and I won't allow Social Security to fail your grandmother."
Modern Republicans say, "Vote for me, or you will likely lose your freedoms, the Socialists will take over, society will fall apart, the commies will take over, your guns will be taken away, and your daughters will be forced to marry gay men."
It's amazing that people fall for this stuff ... but ... sure enough they do.
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Beau78906 months ago
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You're right on the mark, Goppy.
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While I'll admit Democrats do sometimes appeal to fear along with other emotions, it appears fear is the only emotion Republicans care to provoke. And they do it in a way that stimulates a sense of such urgency that their more radical followers sometimes believe taking the law into their own hands is the only feasible option, and rarely disavow those reactions. That's where the vitriol comes from, and how it's allowed to fester.
I've seen comments on this thread and others today comparing the hatred stirred up by those Rich calls "enablers" to criticism of Bush and Cheney--but those commenters fail to see the distinction between remarks made by bloggers and outsiders, and those made by legitimate party spokespeople. I don't recall any elected officials saying they hoped Bush failed or speaking of seceding from the Union. I'm sure some on the right out here will doubt that assertion, and if anyone has evidence of mainstream Democratic officials saying such things, I'd welcome them to post links.
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deathray6 months ago
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fta:
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"But hyperbole from the usual suspects in the entertainment arena of TV and radio is not the whole story. What’s startling is the spillover of this poison into the conservative political establishment. Saul Anuzis, a former Michigan G.O.P. chairman who ran for the party’s national chairmanship this year, seriously suggested in April that Republicans should stop calling Obama a socialist because “it no longer has the negative connotation it had 20 years ago, or even 10 years ago.” Anuzis pushed “fascism” instead, because “everybody still thinks that’s a bad thing.” He didn’t seem to grasp that “fascism” is nonsensical as a description of the Obama administration or that there might be a risk in slurring a president with a word that most find “bad” because it evokes a mass-murderer like Hitler." -
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Klarissa6 months ago
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Learning to Love to Hate
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By JAMES TRAUB
Published: Sunday, October 26, 2003
Scrutiny of the New York Times best-seller list discloses a new and important trend: Bush-hating has eclipsed Clinton-, Democrat- and liberal-elite-hating. There's Bill O'Reilly, liberal-hater in chief at Fox News, at the No. 2 slot; but Michael Moore's ''Dude, Where's My Country?'' sits on top of the greasy pole, while Al Franken's ''Lies (and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them)'' occupies the No. 3 spot. Molly Ivins's ''Bushwhacked'' is farther down, as is David Corn's ''Lies of George W. Bush,'' a register of alleged mendacity so relentless that it puts one in mind of Mary McCarthy's famous gibe at Lillian Hellman: ''Every word she writes is a lie, including 'and' and 'the.' ''
And Jonathan Chait, a centrist who backed the war in Iraq, has given new legitimacy to the genre with a recent Bush-hating confessional of his own in a cover article for The New Republic.-
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deathray6 months ago
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i'm not saying that there is no hate speech on the left, but it's interesting to note that your report is six years old, and that during that period there were no hate crimes associated with political belief on any human being during this period, that i can recall...
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the preponderance of the things you list have more to do with elected officials lying, and less to do with the need for uncivil disobedience, which is what we're hearing on the right these days -
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Will13136 months ago
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at the No. 2 slot; but Michael Moore's ''Dude, Where's My Country?'' sits on top of the greasy pole, while Al Franken's ''Lies (and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them)'' occupies the No. 3 spot.
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taking an opposing view to the administration in power now qualies as HATE SPEECH...
Franken.. was pointing out the lies.. and half truths.. Coulter and Limbaugh get away with on a daily basis.. backing up his arguments with oh.. dare I say it... FACTS..
Facts now qualify as HATE .. and inciteful speech.. as I've said before BIZZARO WORLD INDEED..
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gamahuche6 months ago
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FTA
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These are extraordinary words to hear on Fox. The network’s highest-rated star, Bill O’Reilly, had assailed Tiller, calling him “Tiller the baby killer” and likening him to the Nazis, on 29 of his shows before the doctor was murdered at his church in Kansas.
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I've become more and more astounded at the level of vitriol and pent-up rage appearing on these boards and wonder acutely what it signifies.-
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deathray6 months ago
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it means that when you cannot attribute consequences to statements, you end up hearing things that are so far beyond the pale of decent conversation that you wonder how some of these people get along in society...if, in fact, they do.
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GWHayduke6 months ago
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I think the anonymity factor plays a significant role as well.
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The lack of public repercussion allows people to say just about ANY crazy thing that comes to mind in the heat of debate.
I have read things here that I would hope would not be repeated in person.
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Charlson6 months ago
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"I've become more and more astounded at the level of vitriol and pent-up rage appearing on these boards and wonder acutely what it signifies."
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These are the death thralls of the legitimacy of the far right. They've no real power to push their agendas anymore and feel powerless. These vitriolic angry nuts have the "all or nothing" mentality that gets you conflict more often than not.
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deathray6 months ago
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there's more:
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fta:
"Then he brought up another recent gunman: “If you’re one who believes that abortion is murder, at what point do you go out and kill someone who’s performing abortions?” An answer, he said, was provided by Dr. George Tiller’s killer. He went on: “If you are one who believes these sorts of things about the president of the United States ...” He left the rest of that chilling sentence unsaid." -
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deathray6 months ago
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fta:
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"What is this fury about? In his scant 145 days in office, the new president has not remotely matched the Bush record in deficit creation. Nor has he repealed the right to bear arms or exacerbated the wars he inherited. He has tried more than his predecessor ever did to reach across the aisle. But none of that seems to matter. A sizable minority of Americans is irrationally fearful of the fast-moving generational, cultural and racial turnover Obama embodies — indeed, of the 21st century itself. That minority is now getting angrier in inverse relationship to his popularity with the vast majority of the country. Change can be frightening and traumatic, especially if it’s not change you can believe in."
oh, and if you believe that the deficit sprang up overnight, fully formed from the void, the instant obama was sworn in:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/10/business/economy...-
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beverett6 months ago
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My son is in navy and hes said obama has cut them so bad that they are having to pay for light bulb soap and other need out of their own pocket you really need to open eyes as to obama friend ship and who hes apolgize for americans, and the white house spending is unreal he took his crew about four hundred including his chef,saloon his private car plus family and did a lot of touring at american expensive but we are suppose to be more spend thrift so obamas can bank rupt our countryFECMPVS
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deathray6 months ago
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lol trudie, you don't believe that dod money should go to the troops, or should i understand that this neg was directed towards me?
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if the former, shame on you; it's unamerican. if the latter, you should read the comment for content, and not for some partisan alignment.
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Will13136 months ago
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I think you're full of SH*T.. my son is also in the Navy 11 years at this point.. and this didn't just happen.. HE PAID FOR ALL THOSE THINGS SINCE 2001.. MEALS TOO while at sea.. he's always paid for uniforms.... and personal toiletries..
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Damajah6 months ago
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Either you're lying, or your son is lying. The defense budget was not cut...in fact, the first budget President Obama submitted INCREASED the defense budget. If your son is buying needed supplies out of his own pocket, you should complain to his commander, instead of somehow trying to blame it on President Obama. You think he makes decisions on how many light bulbs and bars of soap the Navy buys? Just another example of the dimwitted Obama-haters, looking for any excuse, no matter how irrational or illogical, to blame him for the miserable state Bush II and his minions left the country in, while dumazzes like you cowered under your beds afraid some terrorist would crash a plane into your trailer.
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donald516 months ago
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Beve, it was Bush who submitted the first 2009 Defense Spending Bill after he vetoed the first since it would have allowed Sadam tortured soldiers to sue Iraq! The military starts its fiscal year in October of the previous year, fool!
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fiftynine6 months ago
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Deathray........"oh, and if you believe that the deficit sprang up overnight, fully formed from the void, the instant obama was sworn in:"....
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The sickening thing is deathray that they do believe it !!! limpy tells them it's a liberal plot,they get their brown shirts on (when they aren't wearing red),and go lockstep down the road praising all that bushboy and cheney has done...absolutely oblivious to the reality of what happened in the past eight years and not smart enough to realize that Obama hasn't had time enough in office to change much of anything yet...
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deathray6 months ago
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fta:
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"We don’t know whether the tiny subset of domestic terrorists in this crowd is egged on by political or media demagogues — though we do tend to assume that foreign jihadists respond like Pavlov’s dogs to the words of their most fanatical leaders and polemicists. But well before the latest murderers struck — well before another “antigovernment” Obama hater went on a cop-killing rampage in Pittsburgh in April — there have been indications that this rage could spiral out of control. "-
libsRfunnyComment removed: Hard Banned5 Replies
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deathray6 months ago
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fta:
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"Conservatives have legitimate ideological beefs with Obama, rightly expressed in sharp language. But the invective in some quarters has unmistakably amped up. The writer Camille Paglia, a political independent and confessed talk-radio fan, detected a shift toward paranoia in the air waves by mid-May. When “the tone darkens toward a rhetoric of purgation and annihilation,” she observed in Salon, “there is reason for alarm.” She cited a “joke” repeated by a Rush Limbaugh fill-in host, a talk-radio jock from Dallas of all places, about how “any U.S. soldier” who found himself with only two bullets in an elevator with Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and Osama bin Laden would use both shots to assassinate Pelosi and then strangle Reid and bin Laden. "-
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Damajah6 months ago
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deathray: The shift from good old fashioned race baiting to twisted paranoia began last June when Obama beat Hillary, and amped up in September when it was obvious that Obama was going to kick McSame's sorry old azz. Under the cover of PUMA's ('member them?) the Republicans hoped they could stampede Dmocrats to McSame, but when they saw the money Obma was still pulling in, and they polls, they knew McLame was finished. Bush's last act was to dump the bailouts on Barack Obama, when in September, he shows up with three pieces of paper saying he needed $700 billion or the terorists would win. How quickly we forget that our economic troubles are a Bush legacy, and if President Obam had done nothing, we would be far worse off.
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TimALoftis6 months ago
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Mr. Rich as usual hits it out of the park with this OpEd. Very factual and on point throughout.
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Glad he reminded us of those angry mobs at the McCain/Palin rallies last fall. Those gatherings gave us all a glimpse of just how certain elements of our population and the right wing media would react to a President Obama.-
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tdrapeau6 months ago
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Beau78906 months ago
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When I hit the link at the top of the story (well after you updated the link), it still asked me to log in...and I'm always logged in to the Times. I think (though I may be wrong about this as I can't tell from the perspective of one who's not logged in) I've had success getting around the registration by using the permalink under the "share" link in the story. That may go to an ad that must be closed before it gets to the actual article. I know you're way more technologically savvy than I, Tom, so you may already know all of this.
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Spadecaller6 months ago
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Most will not admit it, but it is plain to see that many prominent people in government and in the media are beginning to see the dangers of reckless hate speech. What is the real price of this kind of sensationalism?
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The truth is self-evident; many top Republicans, including Gingrich, Bohener and Bachmann who have consistently trashed the Department of Homeland Security report on right wing domestic extremists, have been proven wrong after the deaths of five officers, Dr. Tillman, and the young guard in the holocaust museum. Is it worth it for them to solicit support that will also incite crimes of hate?
Since the previous presidential campaign rhetoric that exploited the bigotry of Muslim haters who used Obama's middle name in conjunction with the "terrorist" Bill Ayers, the news media's sensationalism, and John McCain's fear mongering campaign -- all encouraged and helped unleash the hate that we all know exists in both the deranged lives of dangerous lone wolves and the nearly 1000 far right hate groups currently residing in the U.S. Should we really be that surprised now?
I can only hope there will be an onslaught of more regret and caution exhibited by some reporters who benefit from sensationalizing hate rhetoric.
Sometimes it is good to remember that we can all share in the crime of enabling the spread of hatred. Are not the sponsors of Fox News and the other mainstream networks that make a living off sensationalizing hate partly responsible for inciting violent hate crimes? Are those of us who watch these programs not empowering them as well? Do we not also give the advertisers and sponsors of these programs more incentive to exploit hate rhetoric? What do the Hannitys, Coulters, Limbaughs, and O'Reillys really do for our society? What is the cost of this kind of "entertainment"?
To some degree or another most of us share in the responsibility of spreading hate rhetoric that eventually inspires acts of violence by those on the fringes of our society. Unfortunately, the fringes of our society are now burning. Yes, there is profit for many who fan these flames. We must not encourage them. That is why I do not watch Fox or their advertisements.
Those that incite violence and those that commit violence against Jews, blacks, and minorities share much of the blame. The question is: where do I fit into this picture?
I remember the event when McCain's supporters started chanting "Barack HUSSEIN Obama is a terrorist" and McCain suddenly had to face the consequences of a campaign that had exploited fear and prejudice to mobilize support. Was it worth it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxvunbIWNyI-
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ssfahrer6 months ago
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Unfortunately, the notion of 'equality' is a lie. As biology has proved beyond a doubt that even so-called "identical twins" are NOT truly identical, the truth of INEQUALITY (no one is exactly the same as anyone else, thus NOT EQUAL to anyone else) is driven home....
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Beau78906 months ago
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Um...OK. If you mean that not everyone is exactly the same, then what does that have to do with the concept of equality as applied to American government for the past 200-plus years?
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You may be familiar with the Declaration of Independence, in which Thomas Jefferson wrote: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal..."
I believe Jefferson's point was that we should give equal rights to all (or at least, "all men"). Do you have a different interpretation?
And if you don't mind--I have a question about your screen name. Does it have any special significance to you?
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Klarissa6 months ago
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"Nobel winner apologizes for Bush comment
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Irish peace activist's speech at Dallas event gets standing ovation
12:30 PM CDT on Friday, July 13, 2007
Nobel Peace Prize winner Betty Williams apologized Thursday for saying she could kill President Bush, remarks that drew scorn from Bush loyalists and shook up the International Women's Peace Conference in Dallas.
In a speech before 1,000 people Wednesday, Ms. Williams said that violence is a choice and the push for peace takes hard work and commitment.
It wasn't the first time Ms. Williams has spoken critically of Mr. Bush. Last July, she made an almost identical comment about wanting to "kill George Bush" to a group of schoolchildren in Brisbane, Australia. She said her point was that it is hard to be nonviolent"
[so this is a peace activist?????]-
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donald516 months ago
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Klarris, if Dumya had somehow died ( Cheney too), then maybe someone would have listened to a brief titled "OBL Determined to Attack inside the US" and prevented it, then no Afghan invasion or war of choice in Iraq. More than 8,000 US would be alive and more than 1.2 million Iraqis would still be alive ( numbers quote from international aid agency).
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Seems valid to at least want to see the guy that both Kofi Anon and Tom Daschle rightly called a war criminal pay for his criminality! We hanged 11 Natzis for Dumya's aggressor war and 3 Japanese for his water torture!
So the law means nothing to you at all, does it Klarris? International laws being equally valid under our Constitution when approved by our government!
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donald516 months ago
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It was surely in Reagan's plan to unleash such polarization when he vetoed the Truth in Telecommunications Act and why repugs oppose the Fairness Act of today!
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Like the psychologists on the ABC Program about 3 years ago, titled "State of the Union," stated: polarized news only further polarizes.... as we are seeing in blatant terms on the right, 8 years of constant political bashing of dissenters by the Bush adminstration, or Newt being able to get 7 years of investigation of Clinton while he presented a pack of lies called The Contract With America!!!!!
Rove was a protege of Reagan's Lee Atwater who tried to say he was sorry for his lies and deceptions on his deathbed!
All comes down to the fact that there is a terrorist party in America... the RNC! -
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Poulenc6 months ago
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There are two parts to publicized hate speech: the speech itself and the signal it sends.
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It gives permission to other haters to act out.
When Ann Coulter, for example, called John Edwards a f*ggot in a public forum the bad news was not so much the slur itself but the fact that it provided permission to other homophobes (let's give Ann the "benefit of the doubt" that she used the term out of genuine feeling rather than simply to push her own brand) to say, actually say, the word themselves.
And thus tolerance is abridged, and life is made that much more precarious for the irrationally hated. -
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automan9096 months ago
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Let's face it.
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Obama sat and listened to Rev Wright's hate and scorn for 20 years with his family sitting next to him.
His friends and mentors were terrorists that hated America also.
Bill Ayres = terrorist bomber, murderer.
Bernidine Dorn = terrorist bomber, murderer.
Saul Alinski = Marxist
Karl Marx = Marxist
Rev Wright = America hater and white hater.
Michelle Obama = America hater.
Baraq Hussein Obama = liar, America hater.
God Bless America.
We need it bad.-
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wtagg6 months ago
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Don't be afraid to offer up some of the individuals on the other side of the coin, though I am sure you have justified anything they have said. Anyone complaining about where the US is going currently is an America hater. By definition, you are keeping company with the Obama's.
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Could you provide a link to demonstrate how Karl Marx was a friend or a mentor? That would be a great place to start.
It is one thing to be upset with a president and his policies. That has nothing to do about hating the country.
Believe me, God has nothing to do with it. Your phrase is nothing but a colloquialism. A wish that will never be fulfilled. We live and die by our own sword. The sooner we realize that, the sooner we may be able to turn things around.
It is funny that there is so many that hate the idea of bailouts, but completely rely upon them spiritually. Mull about on that irony. -
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ForrestPhelps6 months ago
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To: automan909
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Let's try to have a discussion. First, it would be hard to be friends or to be mentored by dead people, so you could remove Karl Marx and Saul Alinski from your list. But even if you just mean that they inspired Obama, well, Karl Marx once stated that he himself was not a Marxist.
Also, Rev Wright gave thousands and thousands of sermons, and yet there is only one or two that are ever quoted to show his hatred. Why is that?
Finally, calling the current President and first lady America haters weakens whatever argument you're trying to make.
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Now, if the point of your post was that the Obama's hang out with silent enablers, then say that. But at the same time, denounce the other silent enablers referred to in the article. If not, it makes it seem as if you think what they do is fine. -
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Goppy6 months ago
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WOW .... doesn't that simply prove the essence of the article?
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I myself have noticed an 'amping up' of firebrand rhetoric ... comments steeped in rage.
As one who frequents Propeller as a source for news ... and as a barometer for the 'tone of the populace' ... I've seen the Right Wing Rage go ...
... from .... "The only qualifications Obama has is he can give a good speech ... and he needs a tele-prompter to do THAT!"
... to .... "The Right needs to overthrow this guy before our nation disappears!
What does this tell us?
What it tells me is this ... Obama is moving too fast for the comfort level of the right ... and he's too ding dang effective.
The Right in America HATE change ... HATE ... change.
It doesn't help that ... CHANGE ... is exactly what Obama campaigned on.
The Right was comfortable with changes Bush was making - because THOSE changes were in keeping with the ideal of what government represents ... these are ...
1) Ensuring easy pathways of wealth transfers to the wealthy.
2) Protecting Big Business from all their bad judgments and their moral vacancy
3) Weakening individual rights
4) Elevating Fear as a pseudo-religious rite
5) Spending vast sums on the military
6) Deficit spending on a massive scale (ala: Reagan)
7) War (the ultimate goal of deficit spending on a massive scale)
Now ... we have the deficit spending on a massive scale ... which was fine during the Bush years ... but NOW Obama is changing the ENTIRE focus of Government ...
Obama is carrying with him ... his visions of Social Justice that he honed with his work with Catholic Charities in Chicago.
CATHOLIC CHARITIES!!!!!
The Right Wing Extremists ... being generally comprised of Southern Evangelicals ... are OUTRAGED at this!
Not only is this Obama fellow a NORTHERN politician ... he has worked with CATHOLIC CHARITIES as a community organizer!!
This goes against so much of the right's world view. They have an Evolutionary World View ... that America needs to be unfair ... unjust ... and cruel ... as part of their drama.
And as fate would have it ... this is ALSO the world view of Australian Rupert Murdoch ... (who cars about America about as much as a Frenchman cares about Germany) ... this foreigner has built a media empire based upon a cynical expression of amoral greed and power.
So ... that's it ... the Right has forsaken America ... and now follow a foreigner ... who's managed to take control of our media ... and employs anyone who can stir up Americans to fight against each other.
Sad.
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Will13136 months ago
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1) Ensuring easy pathways of wealth transfers to the wealthy.
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2) Protecting Big Business from all their bad judgments and their moral vacancy
3) Weakening individual rights
4) Elevating Fear as a pseudo-religious rite
5) Spending vast sums on the military
6) Deficit spending on a massive scale (ala: Reagan)
7) War (the ultimate goal of deficit spending on a massive scale)
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what's so sad.. is that the ENABLERS from the article.. have some captured enough of the populace that is actually getting F'd by the very points you make. .. and they defend getting F'd.. infact demand it..-
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Goppy6 months ago
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Yes ... that is exactly the irony.
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It's like ... Hit me ... hit me again .... hit me again ... harder ... break my arm ... do it some more
Even though I regularly counsel Christian Conservatives ... I never cease to be amazed at their feelings of low self esteem ... like they don't deserve to have an effective government ... they don't deserve to be happy.
They really seem to enjoy being miserable and suffering.
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Will13136 months ago
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yep.. government is alway evil... yet they MUST HAVE the patriot act.. MUST HAVE warrantless wire taps.. MUSH HAVE illegal search and seizures.. and to not have them is simply UN-AMERICAN.. talk about bizzaro world..
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they also profess to be conservative.. and NOT ONE HAS BEEN ABLE TO ANSWER A SIMPLE QUESTION...
"YOU DEFEND THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION .. PLEASE NAME ONE THING, JUST ONE THING THEY PRESIDED OVER THAT MET CONSERVATIVE IDEALS".. just one...
I've posted this from time to time.. and only Hhussk.. made an attempt... his reply
TAX CUTS.. well thats fine if the books are balanced.. but conservatives true conservatives would NOT cut taxes.. then spend like drunken sailors with a stolen credit card.. Cheney -- "deficits don't matter" was all you needed to know about HIS CONSERVATISM.. non existant...-
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Goppy6 months ago
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Interesting. Yes, Hhussk is one of the few from the Right that makes a solid attempt to defend the current Modern Republican philosophical state of being.
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And it's even more interesting that the only example Hhussk could arrive at was Tax Cuts.
Which points to my own assessment that Tax Cuts is the ONLY thing that Modern Republicans really care about.
We could be involved in TWO Wars, have a major economic downturn ... and their solution is ALWAYS the same ... We need to lower taxes - or else we're all doomed to live under Socialism!
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LOL
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Goppy6 months ago
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It failed because it wasn't sound economics.
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As Will1313 pointed out ... GW was approving unprecedented levels of spending while cutting tax rates.
Cutting taxes was simply a part of the Mindless Ideology that drove this cabal.
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Don't you think, Progressive?
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donald516 months ago
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wow Auto, you even put "marx" on your list... you poor deluded, persecuted person! How was Barack mentored by Marx?
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Then you say "God Bless America".... when you obviously have no desire to uphold the equality that America has promised new immigrants since its inception.... poor, scared person that you are!
No values, no scruples and no conscience from you, Auto!-
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jakesguile6 months ago
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Amen to that, no rights for them not-pasty skinned people or for those queerosexuals what put dere male-maker inside another man. Those male-makers should be used to f*ck unclean women for the sake of making a world of men, you know that! And if the womenfolk die off...well.... we'll beat them till they live 10,000 years!!!
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jakesguile6 months ago
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I wasn't aware that Obama was friends with Karl Marx... would you happen to have CNN or NYT evidence to back that up? Something not posted from Hotair or the NR?
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And who the hell is Baraq Hussein Obama, I'm aware of Obama and I'm aware of Baraque which was a period in musical history, but no Baraq Hussein Obama. Please fix your comments, your insanity is clearly showing
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Will13136 months ago
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The WORST thing that happened to media was Clinton.. signing legislation that allowed media consolidation.
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Rush's audience for example isn't so large because he's so popular.. even his claimed 14 million taken nationwide... is not a large segment of the population. ... his ratings at local levels is not staggering.. but he's on so many stations.. his deal is a bargain.. 40 million... but that's for his show.. he has to maintain the studios and put the content out .. hire his own producers.. and yes he still makes vast sums of money.. and I don't begrudge that in any way.. he is in a sad sort of way the "American Dream"..
But by allowing for example Clear Channel to own vast amounts of radion and TV stations.. it's a bargain to pay him 40 million.. pay him once an you've got content for 3hours each day.. for over 1000 stations.. and you get NATIONAL sponsors.. where the dollars are much greater than at local levels.. without hiring 1000 different hosts..
Rush used to PAY stations to carry his show.. he got in return a percentage of the AD Spots for his personal sponsors..
He's "worked" for where he is.. (sold his soul is more like it).. and the joke is on those who listen as is listening to the sermon on the mount.. Rush, he's laughing all the way to the bank.. acutally the Dominican.. but thats another topic..
I'm not in favor of the FAIRNESS DOCTRINE.. but allowing one ownership to determine content.. without any real competition.. isn't right either.. change the rules of media ownership back to pre 1994 levels.. give the ownerships 5 years to comply or simply don't renew the broadcast licenses of the offending stations..
Conservatives or those that profess to be... want COMPETITION which is good for everybody, then pass law that allow consolidation.. to ELIMINATE COMPETION.. what's up with that..-
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beavith16 months ago
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congratulations on your loquacity.
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if i might just puncture your contention that right wing radio is somehow wrong:
if there are 14M RWR listeners, shouldn't there be 14, 15, 20M Left Wing Radio listeners?
wouldn't that define one helluva market? if its just to fill a 3 hour block, have LWR provide another 3hour block and everyone should be happy.
where is LWR? the nearest thing that i can think of that might qualify as LWR would be NPR and i find that to be mainly centrist.
LWR doesn't exist because it'd be oxymoronic.-
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Will13136 months ago
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if there are 14M RWR listeners, shouldn't there be 14, 15, 20M Left Wing Radio listeners?
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another got cha....
no there should not be.. LW as you put it are mostly independant thinkers.. and don't need to be indoctrinated.. yet if you package all the RWTalkers on one local channel.. WIOD Miami is an example 24hr right wing all the time.. hell you don't even have to think for yourself what you want to listen to.. just set the dial and break it off.. and get your autoerotic kicks.. with Beck, Rush, Schnitt, Hannity, etc.. by the end of the day.. your dreams have been fulfilled..-
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Will13136 months ago
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Obama sat and listened to Rev Wright's hate and scorn for 20 years with his family sitting next to him.
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=============
I was waiting on that one.. thanks..
If as you claim Obama was influenced by Rev Wright who may have preached to 1000 people at any given time..
how is it
Beck
Hannity
Limbaugh
Coulter
etc..
who claim MILLIONS OF LISTENERS have absolutely no responsiblity in any actions by their listeners...
EXPLAIN THAT ONE....
this should be good..-
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Goppy6 months ago
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pokydoke6 months ago
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You'll have to admit that automan909 is a fairly easy target. He/she obviously never checks facts and is carried away by right wing hyperbola. You can tell from his/her comments that introspection is not high on their list of required personality traits. Shoot first ask questions latter.
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beavith16 months ago
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i've never seen your list of RW talking heads say anything like Wright was quoted saying pointedly at a small audience that includes the future president of the US, for twenty years and someone who was, at one time, a close personal friend.
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Rev Wright is no Billy Graham.-
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Will13136 months ago
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you're mincing word.. if you think those I listed don't incite hate.. I'd say you don't listen or you have your head up your ass...
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Rev Wright .. reached ALMOST NO AUDIENCE.. before Obama's run... and when taken in context.. not just a few words here and there the Rev Wright was almost spot on from the prespective of a black man that couldn't eat in certain restaurants .. attend certain schools.. drink at certain water fountains.. I could go on but you should be perceptive enought to get the point by now.. SIMPLY BECAUSE OF HIS COLOR..
I stand by my comment.. -
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Damajah6 months ago
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Perhaps you don't recall Billy Graham's anti-semetic comments he made to Nixon in the white House, then denied, He forgot that Nixon was paranoid and recorded everything that was said in his office. when the tape with graham's comments was revealed, be pulled the same BS that Republican butt kissers always do...deny, deny, deny, then apologize, then did up a few tokens to show what a great person you REALLY are. ROTFLMAO!
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libsRfunnyComment removed: Hard Banned1 Reply
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CHAM6 months ago
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Why do the Republicans act as if they had wallowed in the gutter? Because they have and they do.
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Obama represents to the Republican Party everything they abhor:
Equality, Freedom of the people, and the Morality associated with the first two.
The Republican faithful allowed severe destruction to occur to this country over the last eight years and when Obama was elected, their plan became "blame it all on Barak HUSSEIN Obama." A racist message laced with hate, pure and simple.
I advocate the demise of the Republican Party by shunning them out of existence. They have earned that penalty. I will never vote for a Republican Candidate again. I was a registered Republican from the Goldwater run until the second Bush run. Now I am an Independent.-
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Goppy6 months ago
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Yes ... you make some excellent point.
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Something else that REALLY p-i-s-s-e-s these folks off is this ... Obama is not an ordinary politician.
He's not risen to power like Bush ... simply because he had a famous name ... and money behind him ... and a supremely cynical campaign architect.
He's not risen to power by playing to the polls like the Clinton's were so often accused of doing by Rush Limbaugh and co.
Obama is simply an ordinary fellow ... like anyone of us would know ... an extraordinarily bright fellow ... but regular in every other sense of the word.
The Right simply has not figured out how to counter the natural appeal of such a person.
Let's face it ... were it not for Obama's skin color ... he would be like Jimmy Stewart in Mr. Smith Goes To Washington.
So I believe what's happening is that the Right ... whose entire campaign ethos lives and breaths by using FEAR as a campaign issue ... has found that FEAR has not been working for them.
So ... they are CREATING the Fear ...
The are attempting to create such a controversy ... to create such NOISE about Obama ... that America will tire of the dissension ... and hopefully reject Obama in 2012.
Seriously ... I've heard from insiders on the Right that this is one of their goals.
Remember ...
... the right has 3 1/2 years to ratchet up hatred for Obama ...
... and with their control of media ...
... we won't be seeing this diminish ...
... but rather ...
... grow apace as we move forward.
In this age ... the right knows that media IS the message .... and media thrives on Drama ... and the right is determined to cast the drama in such a way as to ensure their revival in 2012.
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icono16 months ago
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Yes, drama, as in : a state, situation, or series of events involving interesting or intense conflict of forces, does 'drive the ratings up'. That is what drives the 'media business'; profits from conflict.
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So what is the problem?
The dialectical tension, or the so called static hate speech?
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lloydm656 months ago
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Come on leftist what is your problem.It's not like there is not another doctor to take up the slake.As long as people have a need some will be there to supply it.I believe we should do away with the phrase "Baby Killer".Abortionist could use nuisance annihilators,or brats be gone.This would tone down the arguements.
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russelljgoodmanComment removed: Spam
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Goppy6 months ago
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It's not the same thing ... and you know it, Klarissa.
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Everyone I know, while disappointed in Bush's victory in 2000 - and rightfully stung by the heavy handed Supreme Court intervention ... everyone ... was willing to give Bush a chance.
After all ... his dad was okay ... and GW had a reputation of working WITH Democrats in Texas.
But it was not long after his election that it became apparent that Dick Cheney was playing hardball - creating an administration the nation had never before seen.
Even so, our nation rallied around Bush after 9/11 - and his ratings attest to his acceptance and approval from North and South ... to East and West.
Well, the current economic chaos is our 9/11 - and rather than support Obama - the Right has decided to be opportunistic and ratchet up hatred for Obama's methods for dealing with the situation ... which ... ironically ... is CONTINUATION of George W. Bush's approach!
So please, give me a break ... there's nothing remotely similar. Maybe the Left made fun of Bush for being a dolt ... but it's not like he didn't play that up himself.
It was only after he began beating the drumbeat of war with Iraq, with outing Valerie Plame, with firing AGs for not being aggressive in going after Liberal Justices that anger towards GW became palpable.
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donald516 months ago
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Klarris, you repugs took Atwater's dirty tactics ( under Reagan) and constantly improved on their venom: Newt and Tom Delay getting 7 years of investigation of Clinton while Newt personally came up with a list of deragatives to use on those across the aisle. The Contract With America lies... and Fox news constantly raising the bar of venom as its news editor Roger Ailles was/is a consultant to the GOP.... you un-American pukes have no values when they flip flop as necesssary to demonstrate your opposition. A conscience for all the babies aborted; yet, you are the first clamoring for more war and war profiteering!
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You really are a disgusting American Klarris, please take your Husband back to Germany and stay there - America will be better without you! -
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Poulenc6 months ago
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Will (and others), automan's MO is of the drive-by shooting (sorry, but...) variety.
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In this he mimics the approach of those who like to settle things with a bludgeon--through might--usually applied first, lest someone think, or be given the opportunity to.-
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frctm56 months ago
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He is appropriately self anointed since his responses are automated. Limbaugh in, Limbaugh out. These folks stopped thinking a long time ago. They just channel their leaders. Whatever blubber butt tells them is true, this becomes their mantra. That's why they can't argue beyond the prepackaged belief systems that are poured into their undiscerning minds. Once you lose your autonomy, you become an "Automan".
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thesatyr016 months ago
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GWHayduke6 months ago
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Satire?
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Bush wrecked his legacy be being led by Cheney's decision to invade, destroy, occupy and nation-build in Iraq.
It is unthinkable that one could compare the diplomatic efforts of the Obama administration to the countless deaths that resulted from the unilateral Decider's policy.
But with the political and ideological brain scrubbing being administered by the ever-diminishing extreme right, nothing is shocking any longer.
Some folks just dont care about innocents being killed by bombs built with their tax dollars, but by golly when those tax dollars are spent on American infrastructure - gol dangit, thats SOCIALISM! -
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Goppy6 months ago
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I'll give you the same comment that I gave Klarissa.
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Everyone I know, while disappointed in Bush's victory in 2000 - and rightfully stung by the heavy handed Supreme Court intervention ... everyone ... was willing to give Bush a chance.
After all ... his dad was okay ... and GW had a reputation of working WITH Democrats in Texas.
But it was not long after his election that it became apparent that Dick Cheney was playing hardball - creating an administration the nation had never before seen.
Even so, our nation rallied around Bush after 9/11 - and his ratings attest to his acceptance and approval from North and South ... to East and West.
Well, the current economic chaos is our 9/11 - and rather than support Obama - the Right has decided to be opportunistic and ratchet up hatred for Obama's methods for dealing with the situation ... which ... ironically ... is CONTINUATION of George W. Bush's approach!
So please, give me a break ... there's nothing remotely similar. Maybe the Left made fun of Bush for being a dolt ... but it's not like he didn't play that up himself.
It was only after he began beating the drumbeat of war with Iraq, with outing Valerie Plame, with firing AGs for not being aggressive in going after Liberal Justices that anger towards GW became palpable.
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I guess, the difference is this ... thesatyr01 ... the Right sees EVERY criticism as a personal threat and a personal rejection ... reacting like overly sensitive children ... and for experiencing this ... the Right feels it has the right to demand violence when they are out of power.
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bluetexasvalley6 months ago
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Sorry, babe, one correction.
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" ... and GW had a reputation of working WITH Democrats in Texas."
The only one doing any governing work during Bush's terms as governor of Texas was the lieutenant governor, Bob Bullock, who *was* in fact a Democrat. -
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Damajah6 months ago
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Goppy: I've agreed wih everything you've said up to this point. The criticism of President Obama, has taken a nasty, personal turn, that is not based on anything he's done, or not done, and have nothing to do with his performance as a President. comments about his color, his appearance, his birth mother, his academic achievements (now they demand to see his college transcripts), his smoking, his religion, and on and on, reflect a sick obsession with punishing and tormenting someonewhom they know is better than they are.
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fiftynine6 months ago
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Goppy if the right wants violence then they should be careful what they wish for...There are some in this country that are ready because they are listening to the threats and hate that they keep pushing from their mouthpieces...Sad isn't it ?
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Goppy6 months ago
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Perhaps you are right ... the Left has it's hubris ... the Right has it's Arrogance and Audacious Self Righteousness ... not to mention the resultant and inevitable examples of Hypocrisy.
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And by the way ... it's DESPISE.
Ooops ... did that sound hubristic?
LOL!!!-
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icono16 months ago
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By the way, guppy, thanks for the spelling correction.
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Interesting about pride though;
"The typical American of today has lost all the love of liberty, that his forefathers had, and all their disgust of emotion, and pride in self- reliance. He is led no longer by Davy Crocketts; he is led by cheer leaders, press agents, word mongers, uplifters."_____ Henry Louis Mencken
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"To know a man, observe how he wins his object, rather than how he loses it; for when we fail, our pride supports; when we succeed; it betrays us."_______ Charles Caleb Colton -
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Damajah6 months ago
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I welcome any honest, earned dissent or criticism of President Obama. The problem I see, is criticism of what he MIGHT do before he has done it, or baseless accusations of him destroying the country, when he got to the party late. You people take issue with every little thing the man does, from having his feet on the desk, to taking his wife on a date, to the kid of DOG he got for his kids?!! WTF? Do you people really have that much time on your hands?
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TimALoftis6 months ago
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I was in a Wal-Mart a few months back and was walking by the sporting goods section. 3 or 4 people were talking about Obama and the need take back 'America' from Muslims and Mexicans. It really was scary listening to these folks spew this stuff especially in that setting.
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I just hope the Secret Service has a handle on all of this and is doing all that is possible to keep our President safe.-
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fiftynine6 months ago
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"cleared the shelves at Wal-mart dry of ammunition...SCARY."...It's not only them Tim..some on the other side are taking their talk seriously...Me,i have a family to protect,my wife is Hispanic and my sons are mixed (although all are citizens) and listening to this crap from the right reminds me of another place that had leaders that thought that they had to "cleanse"...Scary ..yes.!!
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lolabull6 months ago
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Just as there are Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and Bill O'Reilly, there are their counterparts over at MSNBC, Rachel Maddow, Keith Olberman and Chris Mathews. What's the dif, they're all fighting for their particual causes? Don't speak about one of these groups unless you're willing to speak about the other in the same fashion. The only difference bewteen these people are their political philosophies. And let's not forget that surely the same people who out-right hated George Bush are the ones who now suck Obama's ****, so you folks just need to relax and understand that 8 years of hatred for a President that many loved is simply being feed back to you people by the gallon, so just live with it or leave the States, those are your options. The hate for the new President will only increase as he continues spreading the path of "change" he spoke about during the campaign and many just don't want it, so they'll hate him like a disease all the while. This should be a fairly simple concept to understand, after all, the left coined the phenomenon back in the 60's and has keep it up ever since. The right is just adhering to what they've seen work for the left is all. Smile, what's the worst that could happen...we all kill each other?
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Progressive6 months ago
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"What's the dif, they're all fighting for their particual causes?"
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Former FBI agent Danny Coulson, who headed the terrorism investigation of 1995's Oklahoma City bombing and now runs a security firm, said that federal agents had increased their monitoring of white supremacist groups since Obama's election, and that they had noticed increased chatter and membership.
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/world_us/20090614_S...-
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Goppy6 months ago
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I take issue with you claiming Chris Mathews is on the Liberal Side.
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I can, and have ... provided numerous comments that I've captured in which he's disparaged Barack Obama in some amazingly cutting ways.
I also have numerous quotes from him in which he EXTRAVAGANTLY praises John McCain ... even to the point of declaring "John McCain DESERVES the Presidency."
Of course, your reference to suckling Obama indicates you simply one more angry and crass Rightie ... so I actually don't know why I just wasted my time talking reason to you.
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Doh!
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Will13136 months ago
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George Bush are the ones who now suck Obama's ****, so you folks just need to relax and understand that 8 years of hatred for a President that many loved is simply being feed back to you people by the gallon,
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please tell us WHAT YOU LOVED...
trampling on you consititutional rights..
sending us into an UN-NECESSARY war.. which has killed over 4500 and maimed perhaps 20,000 more..
spending the tax money you're great grandchildren will pay.. but cutting your taxes to do so..
presiding over the greatest INCREASE in government in HISTORY.. which by the way Clinton reduced the size of NON-MILITARY personal in the government in almost every year of his terms..
tell us please WHY YOU LOVED GEORGE W BUSH .. SO MUCH..-
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Damajah6 months ago
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Will1313:
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Careful now,,,why do you think Newt and Palin refer to Saint Ray-gun so much? They want people to forget that the last eight years were disastorous, and are desperately looking for a symbol that most people have no memory of, and they can make up all the BS they want.
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jakesguile6 months ago
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Wow seriously? The left coined it? GOPPY, HURRY, that medical dictionary, I think my appendix just burst...If I hear one more batshit crazy comment I think I might giggle my testicles off while herneating.
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ARRGH, TOO LATE... OH, it was that "live with it or leave the states" comment
Are you serious lolabull?! "love it or leave it" you're still using that comment now six months later? I love it! I love the sheer dumb-assery of it. I love the ignorance. It's hillarious
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jimdoze6 months ago
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Frank Rich... right on cue.
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Another pundit who is clearly tapped into the administration talking points circle. Rahm Emmanuel is working his magic?
Without so much as struggling to find them, we see Glenn Greenwald, Paul Krugman and now Frank Rich... the core pundits of the Eastern Left Wing Establishment all trying to make the same point.
It looks very well coordinated.
Who else will we see sally forth with the same theme? -
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kz102446 months ago
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The complacent and apathetic voters have made their ill-conceived choice. Putting national security and reform aside, they instead chose the Marxist candidate….the one who promised them the most from the treasury coffers. So much for campaign finance reform. With support from; a left-wing biased Bush/Cheney hating mainstream media, money and ads from moveon.org, fraudulent voter registrations by ACORN, Black Panthers intimidating voters in Philadelphia [and making statements like "a black man is going to win no matter what"], and illegal campaign donations (foreign and domestic), the free market system and experienced national security candidate never had a chance. Never in the history of U.S. elections, has such an extreme liberal, un-vetted, and secretive candidate been elected. It will become America's loss. This man voted over 130 times "Present" while in the Senate, which means he is incapable of making a decision! The middle class bought the Marxist candidates' mantra “I am going to save the middle class” sales pitch, hook, line, and sinker. In short, they were duped. When in actuality, the Kenyan born Barack Hussein Obama will destroy the middle class by creating a welfare dependent class and making them a ward of the state ….he will then own their vote. The Democrats will move quickly to pass and enact laws (i.e., the Fairness Doctrine, more power and money to ACORN, liberal campaign finance laws, ammunition coding and restrictions on gun ownership, granting unions more clout with "Card Check," economy crippling "Cap and Trade" legislation, etc.) to ensure they never lose power through future elections. The future will be a move towards a European style socialist system, where our standard of living and productivity will decline, our mighty military will become smaller and less equipped, and our taxes (all taxes) will go up. We will be forced into smaller cars, smaller homes, and smaller families. We will lose many freedoms, such as the right to own a firearm, the right to vote for a union via a secret ballot [instead the union thugs will tell you how to vote], et al. The gap between the rich elitists and the middle-class/poor will widen and there by destroying our republic and replacing it with a socialistic state. Don't be fooled by the Kenyan born Barack Hussein Obama's current middle-to-conservative cabinets picks (exception being Eric Holder as AG, a true left-wing extremist and anti-gun activist), it is just a smoke screen....remember what Stalin said.
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“Work for more government intervention and control of the business activities of the people. In this way the American people will accept Communism without knowing it.” - Joseph Stalin
(OBAMADECEPTION.NET)WAKE-UP AMERICA!-
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Goppy6 months ago
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WOW ... so that's what someone sounds like after drinking the Neo-Con Koolaid.
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I gotta hand it to ya ... you threw every demonizing code word currently endorsed by Rush Limbaugh and other Mainstream Media outlets.
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I can only hope that one day you will know your own individual voice ... and rise up against your 'right wing handlers'.
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Goppy6 months ago
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By the way .... our president was born in the United States of America.
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Unlike Rupert Murdoch ... founder of FOX ... ... ... he came to America ... bribed some Republican Congressmen to change a law outlawing foreigners buying up our media so as to prevent Propaganda from infecting our populace.
But I guess ... as a member of the Inadvertent Hypocrite Party ... this is lost on you.
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jakesguile6 months ago
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I love the little prop for his psycho-site at the bottom. He scares me, he's the kind who'll go and kill Obama, I bet he's planning to now. Can we report that site as a violation of ToS by inciting one to kill a President? I guess not, cause it'd fall under the category of "providing proof" for his argument, in spite of it being illogical.
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icono1Comment removed: Spam
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jakesguile6 months ago
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No we aren't psychotic are we.
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I've got an idea! Let's mention as many lies in 3 paragraphs merged into one as we can. I can't even read half of this crap because of how crazy and senseless it sounds.
Losing freedoms like the right to own a firearm? Kenyan born? Unvetted? Were you dropped on your head as a kid? PLEASE go sit in the corner of a round room... Yikes. I can't even pick all the lies out of your post but let me assure you that there wasn't a true word you spoke there.
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icono16 months ago
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icono16 months ago
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http://www.mwebster.com/dictionary/erriam-
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Marxism Date: 1887
: the political, economic, and social principles and policies advocated by Marx ; especially : a theory and practice of socialism including the labor theory of value, dialectical materialism, the class struggle, and dictatorship of the proletariat until the establishment of a classless society.-
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icono16 months ago
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http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Marxism-Leninism
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Marxism-Leninism– Date: 1929
: a theory and practice of communism developed by Lenin from doctrines of Marx
An expanded form of Marxism that emphasizes Lenin's concept of imperialism as the final stage of capitalism and shifts the focus of struggle from developed to underdeveloped countries.-
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icono16 months ago
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http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/
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Stalinism Date early 1930’s
: the theory and practice of communism developed by Stalin from Marxism-Leninism and marked especially by rigid authoritarianism, widespread use of terror, and often emphasis on Russian nationalism.-
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icono16 months ago
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http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/
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Maoism: 1950
: the theory and practice of Marxism-Leninism developed in China chiefly by Mao Zedong-
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icono16 months ago
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I have provided links with, first and foremost, 'simple definitions' of the variants of Communism if you want more detailed works on Communism are available on the web as well at book stores and libraries.
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For most Americans and Europeans, Stalinism is the form of Communism that we are most familiar with.
However the link:
http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Communism;
gives a great and easy to understand breakdown of the history, as well as the some of the more popular ‘political variants’, of Communism.-
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icono16 months ago
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As an example of ' Stalinism vs Trotskyism' , is the following from http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Communism
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Note that Trotsky wanted more 'democracy' thereby increasing debate in the body politic while Stalin wanted more personal and therefore repressive control of the body politic.
In the early 1930's, Leninism itself fractured in two distinct branches: Stalinism and Trotskyism. The reasons for this split revolved around the controversial policies of Joseph Stalin in the Soviet Union. Previous to Stalin's rise to power, the Communist Party of the Soviet Union functioned on a democratic system (known as democratic centralism) and members were encouraged to form their own opinions. It was believed that freedom of speech and diversity helped strengthen the Party (and Soviet society in general). As such, a number of different currents of opinion formed within the Communist Party. The two most prominent of these were headed by Joseph Stalin and Leon Trotsky, respectively. Stalin argued for the consolidation of socialism in one country (even one as underdeveloped as Russia was at that time) and claimed that, due to the aggravation of class struggle along with the development of socialism, it was necessary to enforce strict Party discipline and eliminate all political dissent. Trotsky argued that the fate of socialism in the Soviet Union depended on the fate of socialist and communist revolutions around the world (therefore supporting the thesis of permanent revolution), and claimed that Stalin's authoritarian practices were harmful and dangerous (therefore calling for more democracy, both inside the Party and throughout the Soviet Union in general).
Stalin eventually succeeded in gaining full control of the Party and the Soviet government. He went ahead with his policies, which became known as Stalinism. Trotsky and his supporters organized into the so-called Left Opposition, and their platform became known as Trotskyism. However, their attempts to remove Stalin from power failed. Stalin imprisoned, executed or exiled all dissenters - especially the Trotskyists. Trotsky himself was exiled, and eventually assassinated in Mexico in 1940 by a Stalinist agent.
After World War II and during the Cold War, Stalinism spread to a number of new countries, and gave rise to a few different branches of its own. No country was ever ruled by Trotskyists.
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Enjoy.......-
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deathray6 months ago
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so there is an association between stalinism and authoritarianism , and another between trotskyism and democratic centralism, if i read your post correctly
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it's a pity that stalinism won out over trotskyism, in that part of the world, given those choices
oh, and for the record, i'm no communist.-
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icono16 months ago
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I made no mention of you, deathray, being a Communist.
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And for the record, you political choice is noted.
It just seemed that kz10244 was a little confused about Communism vs Socialism, which is not unusal, so I provided some simple definitions about Communism and links he can use to help him clear up his confusion about the various variants of Communism.
Is that a bad thing to do? Provide educational material and resourses, instead of cynical or sarcastic remarks, to the fellow bloggers so they can make better informed decisions and comments when they write?-
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icono16 months ago
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Yes, the associations you are drawing seem to be correct.
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It is a shame Trotsky did not prevail.
Who knows, he and his fellow followers may of accidentally rediscovered Western Democracy through the dialectic if things had been differenct. -
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jakesguile6 months ago
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How about the mention of the fact that Communism is a brilliant system on paper and would solve many problems in this world if it weren't for the fact that the people who employ it are f*cked up psychopaths and that the human condition will not allow for it
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Goppy6 months ago
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Thanks, my friendly Russian ex-pat ... I see why you gravitated to the Modern Republican Party ... everything you've described fits perfectly into the Bush Administration of governance ... Welfare for the Wealthy .,.. Class Warfare ... Wealth Transfer ... Sowing Terror ... Fear Mongering ....
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Pretty soon ... you'll be giving me 'pos'es' 'left and right'!
LOL
!
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Goppy6 months ago
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Please ... you're in America now ... you can stop speaking the group-speak of Comrades ... sure ... it's how the Morally Vacant Right speaks ...
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... for instance ... calling Torture ... Alternate sets of procedures ...
but then ... that kind of group-speak was pretty common amongst you Soviets.
You should consider embracing the idea of liberty ... individual freedom ... that's what America is all about.
Sure, the Modern Right is dedicated to the same values as the land and political system you left .... but I think you could get used to individual thinking.
Or does your residual cynicism leave you cold to the idea?
Oh ... and ... I can tell that I caused you some embarrassment for correcting you on your spelling ... why else would you lash out in your childish manner an call me narcissistic, right?
I'm sorry if I embarrassed you that way.
But look, you made such a big deal about the word despise ... I just figured you would want to know how to spell it.
Or was I wrong?
.
In a way, I helped you make your point ... as inept as it was ... I still helped you ... which is more than I can say you wish to do for The United States of America.
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jakesguile6 months ago
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Amen to all of that Goppy.... but I have a few things to say/ask...
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1. I find it quite amusing to refer to them as "Comrade," it really highlights just where their loyalties lie... when used ironically. Note my use of "lie"
2. Goppy...for the love of God... that Medical textbook man... I need you to look up "Hillarious," "Death" "Randomly Exploding Body Parts" They're killing me
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DarkWizard6 months ago
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And the debate rages on...
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It seems senseless to join in the conversation when one side of the argument is given by those whom continue to pedal their unevolved perspectives as something likened to biblical import (I do hope the irony of this statement is not lost).
Freedom of speech and freedom of expression are great ways of discerning between the mental haves and have nots. But, apparently building any bridges with those using knotted ropes as measuring instruments is neigh impossible.-
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icono16 months ago
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I've been told by people that are supposed Egyptologists and Archaeologists that the Great Pyramids and other buildings of the Ancient world, like the Roman bridges, the great Norman Cathedrals, The Great Wall of China, Hadrian's Wall, and etc, where built using 'knotted ropes' as well as other measuring devices..... as long as all the knots are the same distance, i.e., length of the Pharaoh's or Caesar's forearm apart; much like the English 'foot' measurement of 12inches, then the rope becomes a dependable and therefore viable measuring device. ( Could they of lied to me?)
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Do you use a Cad-Cam, laser ruler, and a TI 84 for your building projects?
The 'Biblical import' message about social Darwinism is ironic and not lost to us 'knot users'.
In fact, it is a contradictory yet hilarious comment.-
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DarkWizard6 months ago
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"Do you use a Cad-Cam, laser ruler, and a TI 84 for your building projects?"
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Do I need to? Are you building a project or building a building? By naming specific instruments used for mapping, measuring or turning vertical and/or horizontal angles, you have also locked yourself into a box that limits your ability to expand.
This is the same limitation I see in conversations with those on the right side of the political spectrum. Maybe I'm building a dam, a transmission line, a software infrastructure, or space shuttle. Will your instruments still create the desired results (rhetorical)...no! Building a bridge and using a knotted rope was metaphorical and that's where you got lost.
The whole point was that using a knotted rope is as archaic as the thinking of the modern conservative. And, I use the word conservative loosely as an encompassing umbrella for where the right-wing has hedged all its bets.
Again, I don't expect anyone from the opposing political view to agree with me as they are not wired for drastic change or continual intellectual expansion. Once they have attained enough knowledge to be complacent with the world around them and who they are, no further self-examination is necessary.
So, if an Ashtech or Trimble (high tech GPS), geodometer (laser measurer), T2 (angle turning instrument), or Land Desk Development (mapping/planning software) can expand your horizons (mind) then definitely use them. Otherwise, you've missed the point.-
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icono16 months ago
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Then, our great progressive liberal poet, make you metaphor less broad, less confused, and directed more to the point.
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Other wise, your great metaphorical intelligence will be lost on a vast number of people, even those people that posses a great elitist intellect like yours. That, of course, would be a great loss for liberal humanity.
I say liberal humanity because, by you metaphorical description, the 'knot using' conservatives can never, by natural intellect or by personal choice, reach the great intellectual vistas you have.
We on the ground stand in awe of your immensed omnipotence and brilliant intellect.
Have a good one Comrade Wizard
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lfergie8126 months ago
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I just wish that Propeller would have policed their forum a little closer to stop those that were banned for abusive comments from getting a new user name and continue the same tactics.
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Before the election, there were many from the extreme right making accusations that they knew were debunked but still repeated the accusations while fully aware that they were lying. Those accusations were so full of hate for Democrats that everyone knew that it would not end after the election.
The lie about Obama not having a birth certificate is still circulating because they are so full of hate from losing the election. They have gone so far as to state that they hope that Obama's policies fail knowing full well that if those policies did fail, this country could go bankrupt because of the value of the dollar being worthless. And they have the audacity to accuse liberal of being unpatriotic.
Now we're faced with nut cases like Limbaugh, G Gordon Libby, Hannity, Beck, etc. with a microphone stirring up more hate among their followers that have lost all signs of reality and live in a fantasy world. Followers like the woman in Pa. that was scared of Obama because she thought he was a terrorist and even though McCain tried to correct that situation, she probably still believes Obama is a terrorist because none of her media has said anything different. Liberal media my posterior. Has anyone noticed how many hours the right wing nuts are getting on the air waves lately? They're on every channel with their hate messages and Gingrich has crawled out of his hole to join the group. -
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Icantwait6 months ago
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My Fellow Americans: We can all be thankful for the opportunity to learn what a real President from the Democratic Party is like. Is he honest? Is he interested in the American People? Is he concerned about the economy? Does he care what people think about him? Are his policies productive? Will we be better off without firearms? Will it benefit us to pay higher taxes? Would you prefer to drive his new vehicles? Do you like the Big Fans that are springing up everywhere? Do you like supporting illegal aliens? Does the increase in crime bother you that much? Do you think you need all the freedom that you have right now? Will we be better off in 4 years than we were 6 months ago? The Real American
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