Comments for Spinhead's Sock Puppet Theater »
Posted By Spadecaller 5 months, 2 weeks ago in Arts & EntertainmentThis Spadecaller video entitled Spinhead’s Sock Puppet Theater
presents many of the peculiarities that come with the anonymous exchange of controversial topics online. Donovan's "Season of the Witch" sets the musical backdrop for this video about "sock puppets."
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Spadecaller5 months, 2 weeks ago
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On many social websites that provide forums for discussion about leading social, political, religious, and/or current news topics, guidelines for conduct are agreed upon at the time members enroll. Should members defy the terms of use, site managers sometimes are forced to discontinue a participant’s membership.
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Generally these guidelines prohibit unlawful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, libelous, deceptive, fraudulent, and obscene conduct. Behavior that victimizes, harasses, degrades, or intimidates an individual or group of individuals on the basis of religion, gender, sexual orientation, race, ethnicity, age, or disability constitute infractions that can lead to a member’s expulsion.
Many of these websites have difficulty upholding these guidelines because they simply do not want to pay for the monitoring that they require. Banned members often enroll again under new names with new IP addresses. These “sock puppets” infringe upon the rights of others and often register multiple accounts. Consequently, sites that cannot manage these sock puppets eventually lose those members that seek opportunities for civil discourse. And, by this process, extremist elements erode meaningful discussions and the quality of debate as the site turns to juvenile bouts of name-calling, personal attacks, and stereotypes. The value of sharing online can be constructive and bring understanding between people of different views and backgrounds; conversely, it also can become a destructive force that fosters intolerance and incites violence. In light of the recent increase in hate crimes and domestic violence in the United States, I thought this video might be of interest to some who are concerned members of various online forums.-
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not2needy5 months, 2 weeks ago
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I agree with most of what you've said here SC, however on Propeller, some of us try to do a little policing of the site ourselves due to lack of man power.. That said.. When a con complains that a banned libby has returned under another id, that person is immediately banned again.. I CAN NAME NAMES IF NEED BE! However when a libby points out that a con has returned under another id, there has to be a full scale investigation done before they can ban that person.. AND until that returnee breaks the TOU so severely that they have no recourse, those people are allowed to remain here indefinitely.. Again, i can name names, but i don't roll like that, and prefer not to!
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Spadecaller5 months, 2 weeks ago
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I have observed am disproportionate number of cases that reflect what you describe, n2n.
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I am trying to remain as objective as possible, but it appears to me that the kind of abusive conduct that neocons demonstrate usually is much greater than what I see tolerated by liberals on the site. Frankly, I do not completely understand all the mechanics involved in monitoring conduct on this site, but It does seem clear to me that are, in fact, two standards; one for the cons and one for the liberals. How is this achieved? I don't know. Is this just a recent roll of the dice or is there a conscious effort to keep enough neocons available for inciting participation. -
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aceofspades15 months, 2 weeks ago
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What you say is very true N2N , but the reactionaries a dying & jumping ship in record numbers, therefore those that remain are replacing them with sock puppets. Of the 5 negs I received on a post four were from sock puppets registered within the last two weeks, the other was from, of course wolfie.
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Let's face it, these misguided reationaries keep the action going - none of us are going to change their mindset, but it is fun watching them grasping at straws as the drown in their own excrement-
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not2needy5 months, 2 weeks ago
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Very true, and i agree..
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Of late Propeller has been invaded by these sock puppets and digg rejects.. Many of the people who have joined here lately are returnees who had gone to digg, were banned there, and returned here..or who came back after forging friendships with more of their own kind and brought them here with them. I have been doing my own little investigating on digg, and here reading profile comments, personal blogs and messages to find out some of what i know about them. They didn't come here to share information, or to engage in debate.. They came here to disrupt, destroy and to get rid of Liberals, and AOL is allowing it to happen.
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Goppy5 months, 2 weeks ago
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DEFINITION OF A SOCK PUPPET ...
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A sockpuppet is an online identity used for purposes of deception within an online community.
I've been called a Sock Puppet because I used to post under the name Edinbug.
I do not consider myself a Sock Puppet because I'm the same person ... imagining the ideas that I use to counter the irrational and hypocritical posturing of the right.
I consider myself a Returning Member - after the punitive ... and I would say ... arbitrary enforcement of TOU.
There are numerous members like me.
For instance ... lovemylibs used to post as joeeddie ... he began posting as lovemylibs as a counterweight to the original 'Cracker-Barrel' stylings of Goppy. He was posting as two people for awhile. I didn't care.
luvmylibs was banned for gaming the system ... came back as AlphaGnosis (AlphaOmega ... LAST to know) .... was banned for gaming the system ... came back as redtomato .... banned for gaming the system .... .... and now .... .... after James Marcus has left ... is back AGAIN as lixbett.
I mean, EVERYONE knows lizbett is luvmyprez, AG, redtomato. And you know what? I don't care!
There's a lunatic insulter and obscenity flinger who's been banned something like 6 or 7 times. ... I'm talking about CALLISTO, DEADLYNIGHTSHADE, ATLAS-SHRUGGED, ellsworth-toohey, obama-watch, rally-monkey.
Some say he's returned as rouge something or other. And you know what? I DON'T CARE!
I see these people as RETURNING MEMBERS of Propeller.
Look, Propeller is a fairly small community. Don't we continue to run into each other ... each day turning into each week, turning into each month, turning into each year?
This is like a family. With the arguments and dysfunction of ANY family. Most of us are here because we have a vision of what Government represents ... and how it should be implemented.
After all ... government affects us every day ... it will affect our children .... and our grand-children (if we are so lucky). :-)
I say ... keep Propeller Propeller ... it's worked pretty ding dang well if you ask me. Except it's still slower than the previous, Netscape version.
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Goppy5 months, 2 weeks ago
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Ooops ... sorry ... I misspoke when I said:
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"luvmylibs was banned for gaming the system ... came back as AlphaGnosis (AlphaOmega ... LAST to know) .... was banned for gaming the system ... came back as redtomato .... banned for gaming the system .... .... and now .... .... after James Marcus has left ... is back AGAIN as lixbett."
I MEANT to say ... luvmyPREZ was banned for gaming the system ...
I got them mixed up because when joeeddie invented his alter-ego lovemylibs ... he derived the name from his good friend ... luvmyprez ... as sort of pean to his good friend.
See?
We're like family ...
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Eagle_Eye5 months, 2 weeks ago
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Goppy, I love you!!!
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"Look, Propeller is a fairly small community. Don't we continue to run into each other ... each day turning into each week, turning into each month, turning into each year?
This is like a family. With the arguments and dysfunction of ANY family. Most of us are here because we have a vision of what Government represents ... and how it should be implemented.
After all ... government affects us every day ... it will affect our children .... and our grand-children (if we are so lucky). :-)""
That is so well said!!! also I hope your explanation of the "Sock Puppet" will clear up some questions other users have.
The problem though is with these dysfunctional members of the family that feel the need to insult and use obscenities to get their points across.-
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not2needy5 months, 2 weeks ago
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Exactly EE! It's old and makes coming here harder and harder all the time. Then when i do visit Propeller, it's like there's a dozen more new people who want nothing more than to upset the apple cart.. And none of them act as though they want to add anything to the community, just attack.
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I could tolerate all of them coming back.. but why can't they do it in a decent way? Submit decent articles from reputable sources, engage in logical debate without the name calling, being obnoxious and over bearing.
If they could state their case/opinion, allow me to state my case/opinion, and have respect for me instead of calling me a silly lib or i'm spreading liberal lies, or something equally as obnoxious, then i could respect them. They won't even allow us to have respect for them because of their attitudes and negative/childish behavior.
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jakesguile5 months, 2 weeks ago
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"There's a lunatic insulter and obscenity flinger who's been banned something like 6 or 7 times. ... I'm talking about CALLISTO, DEADLYNIGHTSHADE, ATLAS-SHRUGGED, ellsworth-toohey, obama-watch, rally-monkey."
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I remember all of them, I always wondered what happened to toohey, about time the sucker got banned-
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Goppy5 months, 2 weeks ago
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BTW ... as all of you know, I used to post comments as Edinbug.
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Here's the how and why I was banned.
I, that is to say ... (Edinbug) ... sent a story invitation to libsRfunny that included what I considered a humorous tweak to libsRfunny ... having no sense of humor ... libsRfunny digested this invitation ... and decided to regurgitate back to me with every imaginable insult and obscenity.
When I, that is to say ... (Edinbug) ... replied in kind ... given that I have this weakness for showing the ridiculousness of people's irrational behavior by showing it BACK to them .... However, libsRfunny replied with an even MORE elevated level of obscenities.
When I, that is to say ... (Edinbug) .... responded similarly ... (wondering how long this would go on before one of us burst out laughing) ... and exploring the depths to which libsRfunny would take this ridiculous exchange ... libsRfunny ran crying to James Marcus to have me banned.
After libsRfunny reported me, that is to say (Edinbug) ... libsRfunny replied to me with one last message ... taunting me that I was about to be banned ..... the message was very similar to what any 8 year old might hear .... like... na nana na nahhh ... you're going to be banned!
And indeed ... minutes later ... I WAS banned.
When I pled my case to James Marcus ... explaining that if libsRfunny complained about me using obscenities ... he should check libsRfunny's comments to me ... that is to say (Edinbug).
James Marcus reply was something to the effect of .... "The Conservative members already feel like they are being ganged up on ... if we let Edinbug back, (that is to say (me)) ... they would freak out."
If anyone thought that I was going to let some smarmy little whiner ... employing the EXACT SAME smarmy little whine about Liberal Media Bias ... was going to repress me .... they just don't know me.
I came back! And STRONGER THAN BEFORE ... because .... as Edinbug ... I tried to be humorous and conciliatory ... gracious ... (with some notable exceptions) ... and was given recognition by Right Wing (then) Netscape members.
But as GOPPY .... I'M RE-LOADED FOR BEAR .... and when Right Wing insults fly now ... I'm ready to RUB the Rights Noses in the BS they lay down.
That's why I say ... America is GREAT!
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Goppy5 months, 2 weeks ago
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I miss Goppy as well ... :-)
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But there was a sense from the Christian Conservative community that I was demeaning them ... which I wasn't ... I was only demeaning their hypocrisy.
And the original Goppy was the best way I could achieve that.
The schtick was originally inspired by the obstinate refusal of our Right Wing brethren to accept the concept of Climate Change.
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Eagle_Eye5 months, 2 weeks ago
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That is why we didn't hit it off at first on the threads, I thought you were a GOP and didn't see the sarcasm at first....but I do love your postings!!!! Your honesty in posting the truth has all ways gotten them to where they can't respond because you post the absolute "truth"...
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deathray5 months, 2 weeks ago
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Goppy5 months, 2 weeks ago
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Goppy5 months, 2 weeks ago
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Please reference the many ... "I don't care"s ... after pointing out other returning members.
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What that means is ... I'm okay with them returning. .... See?
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I don't care how many times they return.
I even like it when rally-monkey returns ... (or one of his/her many incarnations) .... because it validates the ... all too common ... irrational rage and crassness of the right .... which serves my point.
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y_soitenly5 months, 2 weeks ago
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Goppy,
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That's fine that you are Ok with them returning.
You act like you are the Apex of Propeller.
But, YOU are still sending a wrong message to others that have been "banned" for various reasons, in the past, that it is OK to come back and start over as if nothing bad happened in the first place.
And ~ If that's the new rule, then WHY do we have certain peeps here, that do nothing but follow around certain new members that, in their minds, truly believe that they are the root of all evil. They are policing this forum, as n2n called it. "They are Propeller's rent-a-cops!"
WOW.. What is the salary for that job? Can anyone apply for that position?
Hmm, I could sure use some extra money these days... Where do I sign up?!-
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Goppy5 months, 2 weeks ago
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Oh jeesh ... you posted the exact same comment on the thread as you did in your private message to me?
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Okay ... here's the reply message I sent you.
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Look, I don't know how you come up with assigning some kind of ego-centric role that I perceive myself to have.
How do you derive at that? Is it because I comment a lot?
Because I'm wordy? I don't consider that a plus. I would love to be more concise. But I don't have that ability.
As far as messages ... again, this is an open forum ... I'm giving my opinion - just like you do. It sounds like you are trying to be somewhat of a 'rent-a-cop' yourself, eh?
As a member, I'm free to express the opinion that I believe ANYONE can come back. I'm sorry if that offends you, but that's what I believe.
As far as peeps following others around, I have had peeps follow me around since I first became a member. They come ... they go ....
Right now, Vidman and gwhiddon are following me around giving my every comment a neg.
Last month, albmore was following me around giving me negs ... AND ... posting very snide replies to each of my comments.
Perhaps you are taking all this too seriously?
I'm here because this is one of my main sources of news ... believe it or not. I don't watch the talking heads on TV ... and I don't listen to talk radio. To me, Radio has always been for music.
As an older person, I also enjoy the process that goes into debating, the quick research I have to do to back up my comments, the remembrance of political benchmarks from 10, 20, 30, 40 years ago.
I hope this helps to explain my position. No ... I don't think I'm some Grand Poo Bah of Propeller. If you knew me, you would realize how ridiculous is that image of me you have.
I'm NOT the Left's Glenn Beck, Bill O'Reilly, Rush Limbaugh. And it's actually true that prior to the rise of Newt Gingrich style Republicanism ... I DID vote more often for Republicans.
So ... where's all this coming from then? You and I rarely appear on the same thread ... and yet you're PM'ing me with all this stuff .... what's up with that?
Again, have an enjoyable Independence Day!
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Goppy5 months, 2 weeks ago
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Having said all that ... it would be nice if people didn't call me ass ... moron ... idiot ... libtard ... ...
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Of course, it would also be nice if Commodore got back on his/her thorazine ... and if pc25 learned to love our country ... and if icantwait stopped posting from his cave in Tora Bora.
LOL!!-
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not2needy5 months, 2 weeks ago
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That was spot on!
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Funny (not HAHA) that Propeller management can immediately pick up on a liberal who has been banned if they try to come back and will re-ban them immediately.. NOT SO WITH THE CONS!! They are allowed to come back over and over, create sock puppets, and when it's pointed out, all the response we can get is.. It's under investigation! Our hands are tied.. lol..
I have just about stopped participating because of this unfair practice around here.. Who knows, maybe the powers that be at AOL wants this to be a conservative puke palace! That's what it's appearing to be, and i just don't feel like fighting them anymore! The cons on Prop have no morals, regardless of how many times they are banned, they will continue to come back and continue to wreak havoc, and AOL seems to approve and like it.. So Be It!-
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not2needy5 months, 2 weeks ago
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It definitely leaves a bad taste, and not one i want to continue to have to deal with forever. I have been a member for years, and for years banned cons have been allowed to come back over and over, i can't think of ONE single Libby that has come back and been allowed to stay the way they have allowed the cons to do... and just disregard TOU! It's not fair, it's demoralizing, and it's just gotten sickening..
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Left leaning site my fat ass!-
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jakesguile5 months, 2 weeks ago
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It always seemed more left-leaning back when it was Netscape. Hell, I left for three months when they 86'ed the Itachirumon account during the switchover to Prop 2.0. I refused to make any further posts until I dug this up and made an account. But after those 3 months I started reading here again. Finally I got tired of seeing comments that were just SO clearly batshit nuts that I HAD to say something because it would bother me greatly that these people were getting away with these innacurate comments and nobody was correcting them with the 'right' data necessarily. It's why I joined in 2006, I had the perfect argument from APUSH classes and nobody ever used it. So I came back to try to derail a few of their comments.
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Mikunited5 months, 2 weeks ago
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Neat video with a great,(almost forgotten,by me)song as soundtrack.
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It has become a fact of life,that name callers and bigots are using the"freedom of speech" argument,to further their extremist agenda.I think they believe it is irony,to use a "progressive's" tool/weapon against us.They should be pleased, that folk from a broader and more humanitarian mindset,fought many battles,often against reactionaries,to make freedom of speech available to all. -
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slate5 months, 2 weeks ago
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Yeah sock puppets are in both groups left and right. I was almost ecited about this thread, thinking it would be the beginning of a non-partisan discussion, where left and right could agree that sock puppets need to go. unfortunately I was wrong and it's turned into a one sided thing (as usual)
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I don't know the number of how many of one side or the other has been kicked. I know of a couple prominent sock puppets on the left that have been around for a very long time with impunity. These people don't just come by and neg but openly participate. I also have a group that negs me and never posts.-
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not2needy5 months, 2 weeks ago
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Ok slate for the sake of debate, argument or whatever you want to call it.... HOW many liberals do you know that are banned and come back, and allowed to stay?? I can name you several cons that have been banned and allowed to come back and stay.. Do you really want me to go there?
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slate5 months, 2 weeks ago
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BTW I want to reword that. I don't 'know' who are sock puppets for sure I'd like to rephrase that to 'suspect'.
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Yes I'd like to know that, since I don't know who they are.
Well you have Goppy (who openly admits he was Eddie, got banned and has been operating as Goppy for quite some time,,,, maybe hiding in wide open works best here,,,,,you have that one crazy lady that has come back so many times I can't even remember her name anymore.
I guess the real question is what one defines as a sock puppet?
If you have been banned from this site with your original profile name, is anything you use after that a sock puppet? Furthermore, are the 'extra' profiles the regulars use to just neg or cause havoc with foul childish language and name calling considered as sock puppets? And shold they be kicked out for having more than one profile (which. correct me if I'm wrong against the TOU)?
But Please Do offer your list of those you think are sock puppets and who you think they are associated with (from either side, since you are in the know). You can also answer the questions I posed to you if you like, but most importantly I want to see your LIST,,,,, PLEASE DO GO THERE.-
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Progressive5 months, 2 weeks ago
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slate5 months, 2 weeks ago
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Progressive5 months, 2 weeks ago
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slate5 months, 2 weeks ago
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i'm only ok with people coming back if the management allows it and there should be some sort of announcement saying that is the case. I will make them seem to be doing their job and it will cause less grief for those coming back. That said, if anyone comes back without permission then they are bucking a system that they had no problem disregarding in the first place. These people should be canned immediately and not allowed back.
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Progressive5 months, 2 weeks ago
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I wasn't talking about people who were BANNED--I meant only those who CHOSE to close their accounts. There are a few people here who closed their original accounts when the old Propeller changed and subsequently opened new accounts when they saw that the glitches had been addressed sufficiently for them to enjoy participating again. I don't consider such accounts as "sock puppets", since they never violated the TOU.
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slate5 months, 2 weeks ago
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I wasn't talking about people who were BANNED--I meant only those who CHOSE to close their accounts.
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Sure I believe that people should be allowed to come and go,,,,,,, the only problem with deleting your profile,instead of taking a break, is someone may steal your profile name and use it.-
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Progressive5 months, 2 weeks ago
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slate5 months, 2 weeks ago
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Not in reality, but you can imagine the confusion in the thread when a familiar profile name has a personality that's 180 degrees opposite of what you are used to seeing?
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BTW not to change the topic it appears that Palin has decided to not run next year and is considering stepping down.-
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Progressive5 months, 2 weeks ago
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Yes, I submitted the Palin story 45 minutes ago:
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http://www.propeller.com/story/2009/07/03/palin-re...
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willottica5 months, 2 weeks ago
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Speaking as someone who deleted his profile and wanted to take it back: It get's stuck.
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Actually, when you choose to close your own account, you are labeled as "banned".
Tom was nice enough to restore my old "deleted" account intact, and now, I actually have 2 profiles... but the name's the same for both, so I think it's fairly obvious I'm not trying to sneak around with the second. (I kept it around because I didn't want THAT one to show up as banned and have all comments lost. So it's there, but inactive.)
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fiftynine5 months, 2 weeks ago
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"There are a few people here who closed their original accounts when the old Propeller changed and subsequently opened new accounts when they saw that the glitches had been addressed sufficiently for them to enjoy ...."
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I am one of those people...Past.."baddad59"...now "fiftynine"
Got tired of the slowness and the changes and when some were fixed i decided to come back..Not a sock puppet like so many...There was one on here the other day that had like a thousand drops in two days...lol...That is a sock puppet.
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not2needy5 months, 2 weeks ago
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The lady you're referring to is Tess, and rarely does she stay here long enough for anyone to even know she was here, she's banned immediately after setting up an account. Whereas luv was banned, came back as AlphaGnosis and was allowed to stay for over a year with management knowing it was her, but allowed her to stayLamDiberals=DanmLiberals=Libsrfunny.
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It's speculated that lizbett is another incarnation of luv/AG, and possibly spartafullthrottle! From the way these people comment, you know they aren't new, they know people, old people, banned people, etc.. so you tell me, if they are new, and here ligit why hide??
As far as Goppy and Eddie, i don't have a clue.-
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slate5 months, 2 weeks ago
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Alpha knows me and if she came back I'd think she'd not keep that from me. I don't believe she's on this site these days but who knows for sure? Goppy has openly admitted to being Ed so that's a non starter.
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Thanks for the list BTW, do you also know of any sock puppets associated on the left?-
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not2needy5 months, 2 weeks ago
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No i don't.. I do know that Tess has tried to come back but everytime she tries, she's banned almost immediately, as opposed to AG/luv who was allowed to remain for a couple of years before management was given irrefutable evidence. I don't know what evidence they were given, but that's what i was told.
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slate5 months, 2 weeks ago
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not2needy5 months, 2 weeks ago
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JamesMarcus5 months, 2 weeks ago
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not2needy5 months, 2 weeks ago
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Be that as it may, since this influx of new members and the downright abusive artilces they have submitted, i.e. "Liberals Don't need no Stinking Principals", plus submitting from personal blogs, opinion pieces, oftentimes submitted as News and Fact, Liberals have been subjected to a lot of abuse at their hands too!! Then when one of us takes up for the Liberal community, they are banned, and it's overlooked that the person they stood up to is bandying about the F word constantly, cursing like a sailor using all kinds of awful language.. Were they banned? NO, but the person who called her the c word was banned, even though most of what he said was no where near as bad as the things she said!
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That's my point! Some can and some can't around here..-
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JamesMarcus5 months, 2 weeks ago
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You are absolutely right that both parties should be held to the same standard. But it's hard sometimes to sort out culpability when the mud starts flying. "He started it!" is the standard defense, which may necessitate looking back through multiple threads and posts.
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Of course I am no longer in the banning business. -
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Aidenag5 months, 2 weeks ago
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It was LMP/AG. As was ClariceStarling ,KittenKaboodle, Bar_Time, Aniokly, and a half dozen other's i can't recall anymore. It was a long annoying process of keeping her off the site. She had so many accounts that she literally(no joke) would talk to herself in comment threads...
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not2needy5 months, 2 weeks ago
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OMG, she sent me a picture of a little old lady, said it was aniokly! ROFL! IT was her all along?? That's amazing.. and there's something seriously wrong (mentally) with answering your own comments.. I have always heard that it's ok to talk to yourself, but get worried when you answer yourself!
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AMAZING!!
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jakesguile5 months, 2 weeks ago
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I remember Old Gringo... and I remember this "Will" guy.. but it definately wasn't Willotica or the other one back in early 2008 we got into an argument over homosexuality and he was responding to me.. in very juvenile terms. Sorta like a combo of what Petesake says with that guy I recently helped ban that made those nasty one-liners. I made this awesome post telling him all the logical fallacies he'd engaged in and he tried to tell me I'd made half of them up (perhaps he'd never heard of ad ignorantium: the appeal to ignorance). Anyway I haven't seen him about but I get the feeling he'll come back someday....-shudder-
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ameliog5 months, 2 weeks ago
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Spadecaller5 months, 2 weeks ago
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thanks ameliog...
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Sometimes it is best to make a statement with a song and picture. My voice has not come back yet since my surgery, so the only complex communication that I am doing is online at this point in time.
Btw, I really don't consider this a partisan attack as slate is framing it. What I mean is that if it were the left or right that was getting banned and being permitted to return as sock puppets, either way it is wrong and counterproductive for the best interests of this entire community.
Slate is being too sensitive about the politics of the people abusing this forum and undermining the quality of debate. There are people on both sides of the fence that have gone over the line and have been banned. I would like to see some straight shooting leadership from Propeller for a change and send back the sock puppets to the clothes line. If it happens to be 66% neocons and 32% liberals, and 2% sexual perverts doesn't matter to me.
It's the same thing with our national government; if we are all Americans, we should all be first loyal to the best interests of our nation and not to our party. If we care about this forum, we should care more about solving the problem rather than ascribing blame to one group or another. If there is a discrepancy and AOL is shirking their responsibilities in monitoring the right or left abusers, it would be best for Propeller's community to have this problem resolved as we will all benefit. The opportunity to engage in intelligent discussion on controversial subjects has nearly been obliterated on this site. Frankly, I am getting bored with the childish insults that several members (some of whom have been banned before) seem to enjoy. I am not just referring to the ones directed at me. LOL. Often entire threads are comprised of "You lefties and you neocons suck...bla bla bla. Most of us who have the capacity to be honest know who they are.
Even when posters on the left support ideas or similar opinions to my own, I still find it counterproductive and annoying that they cannot do it without using personal insults and attacks. It would be nice to stand together with other members of propeller regardless of their politics to show that we want and can do better as a social website. The benefits of meaningful discourse would be a far better source of solid entertainment than what we have presently.
Besides finding fulfillment through exchanges that are civil, we need to recognize a sad reality that is happening in this country. Difference is becoming the only excuse some people need for inciting others to react violently. We deserve better. Propeller needs to step up to the plate and get involved in fixing this issue before Propeller becomes a ghost town.-
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slate5 months, 2 weeks ago
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I agree,,,,,,, I apologize that you took my stance as an attack on you,,,, it wasn't what I was trying to accomplish,,,,,,,, chalk it up to poor wording and frustration that there are so few times we can actually have common ground,,,, as you stated the (the other side sux, no matter what the topic is very counter productive.
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Once again my sincere apologies,,,,,,,,
Now to the topic at hand Spade,,,,,,,, what do you thin the solution is?
Heck IMO, just getting rid of sock puppets would would streamline threads for one and make discourse a bit more tolerable. It will never stop heated arguments but maybe the headed arguments would be much less Crass.-
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Spadecaller5 months, 2 weeks ago
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Thanks slate for following up. Regarding the solution: I am not sure that Tom and AOL are necessarily on the same page. To monitor this site effectively probably requires more manpower (female-power )...
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I have no problem with stimulating heated arguments; it;s that tit for tat mickey mouse name calling crap that is boring and stifling. People who have been banned and are sock puppets still contribute much of the same nonsense - perhaps it is a little more subdued, but sooner or later they began repeating the same mistakes that caused their initial expulsion.
Last year, I recall Tom promising to track down and investigate many of the suspects that were on their list of likely sock puppets. I have heard little about it since then. If we can stand together on the issue of playing ball by the same rules, it is then up to Tom and managment to enforce and maintain our guidelines
I am not sure AOL cares enough to invest in a little extra help monitoring the site adequately. Often there are horrendous comments made that people report on site, but rarely do those comments get removed. That appears to be the case. The idiot light may go off, but there is no one home to see it.
Frankly, I am not sure if AOL even wants to prevent right wing sock puppets from returning. I do not mean that to be controversial by nature. What I mean is: if liberals were the minority, it would be cost effective to allow them to return as sock puppets and do nothing. For advertising purposes and cost, AOL might be happy with crass fighting even if there is a greater turnover of membership. The bottom line is advertising profits with the least amount of expense. Keeping the troublemakers from the minority side well stocked requires less expense even though the retention of veteran members will decline.
So, the question remains: does Tom have the backing of AOL or not? That I do no know.-
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JamesMarcus5 months, 2 weeks ago
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Re: your last question, you'll have to ask Tom. But as I've said before, vicious political spatting and personal attacks are not considered a plus by advertisers. Nobody wants to be associated with them. Okay, maybe the guys who manufacture tasers wouldn't mind.
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gamahuche5 months, 2 weeks ago
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"Besides finding fulfillment through exchanges that are civil, we need to recognize a sad reality that is happening in this country. Difference is becoming the only excuse some people need for inciting others to react violently."
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This violence, whether physical or verbal, is a sickness that alas has perhaps always lurked in US culture but during the last years has turned into a more virulent form of the disease.
When I lived in the US I pretty much got a pass, whether it was VT or San Francisco or NYC or Montana because I refused to adopt a role that would identify me with one faction.
In almost every other country in which I've lived, at least in the times when I lived in them, people were close friends with others who were completely different from themselves and that was precisely what made life worth living. That is still the case where I live now - but I have no time for England any more, which went to hell under the Blair regime.
The internet is specifically a medium which DOES lend itself to a) misunderstandings and b) flaming with no "real" comeback.
The situation here also shifted considerably because the running of propeller became a 2-person job at the time of the "change" and is now almost a 1-person job - at least in terms of the areas that are visible to us, the public. There were in previous times the Scouts who were literally on-call 24/7 - always at least one that we "knew" and could approach directly even about some triviality.
I think its good that we're discussing here and perhaps some inspiration will come out of it. I'm feeling some or I wouldn't be burning the midnight oil with a very busy work-schedule coming up.. -
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jakesguile5 months, 2 weeks ago
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I own up to my insults...although I usually only try to do it when provoked by someone elses' nasty comments first or by reading a comment that's just... really beyond the pale of debate acceptability "All gays should have their heads smashed in" or making really racist comments about another race.... that bothers me and I'll openly mock the person who says it as retribution
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gamahuche5 months, 2 weeks ago
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"Loved the video SC and grooved on the song!"
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Hear hear to both !!
I was looking for somewhere to say this!
I missed many of SC's videos but of the ones that I was able to see this was the finest - the timing especially!
I also have a soft spot for Donovan!-
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Spadecaller5 months, 2 weeks ago
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"I think its good that we're discussing here and perhaps some inspiration will come out of it."
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Thanks G!
I hope so. And I also hope we do not have to lose any more veterans while searching for solutions. I suppose we need to ask Tom questions, though we all know his hands are full since JamesMarcus has moved on.
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not2needy5 months, 2 weeks ago
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Perfect example.. The only person who has dropped this article is maroon_tide28, who has been a member all of 22 minutes and dropped 16 articles, no props and no comments! lol. Now wonder who that is who decided to return and drop a few of the liberal submissions??? Not hard for me to figure out, crimson tide.. Maroon tide!! Not rocket science!
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Eagle_Eye5 months, 2 weeks ago
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I am so over the forces coming in and taking over our site....they post from their own blogs and in order to do this they have to post other stories so they create a bunch of sock puppet accounts to prop their stories to the front.
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I am so over the hate filled stuff spewing from these people, yesterday after reading these two posts by the same person just made me sick over the fact that this stuff continues.
""spartafullthrottle15 hours, 41 minutes ago
You're some sick little internets ba*tards you know that?
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""spartafullthrottle15 hours, 21 minutes ago
I have to say you prop plugs really keep outdoing yourselves in the lame comeback department. I will let you in on a little something, it's a standing joke in my internet circle (yes we all have them, well maybe not you guys b/c you seem to sit alone at the internets lunch table) but it's a standing joke that propeller is like the velveeta of internet social bookmarking sites (well the people that inhabit these un-hallowed walls are just a cut below ;D) So guys, yes step it the F up, please.""
Why do we put up with these people??? Just neg them don't engage them. I have also been doing research like n2n and am seeing a pattern of the props and am beginning to figure out who's sock puppets are who......
I have stopped commenting because I keep getting picked apart o n what I say and I am tired of being attacked.-
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not2needy5 months, 2 weeks ago
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It's been reported, by several good, long term Propeller members.. The only response we can get is... It's being investigated, our hands are tied! Their hands wasn't tied when they banned PHB or Tess or any of the other Liberals they have banned... Then they allow cons to come back, knowing full well who they are, and let them stay until they are backed up against the wall with irrefutible evidence and have no choice but to ban them again.. lol..
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When you saw sparta make that last comment yesterday, i wish you had told her that she keeps coming back so what's that say about her? Apparently Prop isn't the joke they pretend it is! But i'm about done with it!-
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slate5 months, 2 weeks ago
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How's that bi-partisan list of your suspects coming? i was serious when I said I want to see who you suspect being sock puppets on BOTH sides and who they are connected with. It may be of service to the management, as well as the bloggers.
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slate5 months, 2 weeks ago
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WOW all I get is a neg from someone that continually gripes about being negged? What am I supposed to think about your comment about a list Needy? Does this mean it was just a threat and you thought I wouldn't be interested in who you thought were SPs?
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Additionally, being negged because I requested the information you publicly offered must mean that indeed this thread was created for the sole purpose of the left? Should we on the right assume that a thread submitted by Spade is solely for the left's gratification, or am I wrong and indeed you guys understand that the issue of Sock Puppets croos political sides and you are willing to invite someone from the right to see if we can come up with a solution?-
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not2needy5 months, 2 weeks ago
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Ciera-Marie5 months, 2 weeks ago
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You know slate if you look above some of your comments down here you'd see the list.
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I can guarantee you the list has more Republican/con members multiple member names than we can find dems. The only is goppy.
And regarding luv/alpha/klaryic/red/clock/lizbett not telling you she's back. Maybe she's waiting to tell you. Maybe she thinks all the hoopla over her name will die down. Or maybe she knows she may be banned sooner rather than later. OR IT COULD be she's waiting for all of her friends to notice she's back.
Come on most of my friends and I know lizbett is luv.-
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Ciera-Marie5 months, 2 weeks ago
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spartafullthrottle is nixie. I suspect this because all of her comments are similar to Nixie's. She. like lixbett haven't been members long, but sure do know which groups to join, how to spam other groups with their stories, make inciteful hateful comments, then know who to run to to get a member banned. While being able to stay after making hateful comments themselves.
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Also one cannot forgot deadlynightshade (do not know who she was before that. But she has some serious f***ed up ones.)/atlasshrugged (remembered this time! Yes! I got atlas shrugged and alphagnosis/omega mixed up because they'd prop each others stuff. They also were gaining up on some members. And dropping all of their submissions.)/obamanation/rallymonkey.
You can bet against it if you want, but I guarantee she'll be back. The only she hasn't done is stalked male liberal/independent members and make comments on the threads about what she'd like to do. God that was awful.-
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not2needy5 months, 2 weeks ago
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The only problem i have with sparta being Nixie is this, Nixie was obnoxious, but she didn't have a potty mouth, i never saw her curse, but sparta has a mouth like a sailor. AND Nixie still has an active acct as Nixie.. So what would be the use. Now that's my way of thinking, i only have one id, so maybe i just don't have a sock puppet mentality. However, if they think it's acceptable to cheat and scheme to get a story to the front page etc, then it's no wonder they think the things that Foley, Craig, Ensign, yada yada have done is acceptable. Anything goes when it's in the favor of a con, Nothing goes when it's in the favor of a libbie..
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The sad part here is this..
The majority of the cons on Propeller are poor as church mice, i know some things about some people i don't tell. BUT some of them are poor, live on government benefits, but talk about other people who do, They buy their clothes in used clothing stores, or from ebay used. I know cons who have had abortions in my personal life, women i have worked with. I know cons who bandy about the wages of sin, but never darken the doors of a church. Hypocrites to the point of making me want to puke, then when they are exposed, the only thing they can say is.. "A pack of Liberal lies"..
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fiftynine5 months, 2 weeks ago
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"I have stopped commenting because I keep getting picked apart o n what I say and I am tired of being attacked.'...Don't let them win..Plenty of people on here appreciate what you have to say and have your back.When you get tired of the game players...block um..works for me..:-)
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aceofspades15 months, 2 weeks ago
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vidman - automan- notalwaysilent- tadair- and (drum roll) wolfie are all part of everyone's gnat swarm here, so their negs negate themselves and negs from sock puppets are the rashes they leave behind.
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Who gives a chit about them when the pos I get from rational people almost always out number them by four to one-
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slate5 months, 2 weeks ago
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All sides get negs from other memebers,,,,, you should see my list of regulars and unknowns that neg me. I'm also sure those you mentioned could come up with a very large list of their own. Why do all of Spade's threads only discuss one side of an issue that is rampant on both sides?
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Thoug the music was good some of the imagery was a bit rwisted by artful.-
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Spadecaller5 months, 2 weeks ago
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If you read my comments slate, anyone can tell that it is not the politics of the perpetrators that concerns me.
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On the other hand, by you pointing the finger at me and blaming me a partisanship view, you have been much more instrumental in moving this discussion away from solutions and more towards blame.
The old saying seems to apply here: When you point the finger of blame, remember you have four pointing back at yourself.-
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slate5 months, 2 weeks ago
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I wasn't pointing fingers at you, just stating the fact that your threads usually turn into a partisan thing.
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I know that you didn't mention sides and I applaud you for that. But you are the Author of the thread, a smart guy and you probably know more than most here about the site, so I'm asking you to moderate (if you'd like) the thread and let's get to the meat and potatoes of the matter.
Now since you posted the thread can you give us your opinion of who you think are sock puppets and or have multiple profiles (on bth sides), since this is a non partisan issue?
I'm trying to have a bi-partisan talk but some here are trying to make it a one sided issue,,,,,,, I can't blame you for that in this thread nor can you blame me for pointing that out.-
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Ciera-Marie5 months, 2 weeks ago
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We're not trying to make it one sided. It's like N2N said earlier. A lib/dem or independent is banned and usually banned for good. With one exception that I know of and knew before most everyone. He outed himself so it's all good.
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I can name you more of your friends multiple names.
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Eagle_Eye5 months, 2 weeks ago
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WHY does some one new come on this site and immediately can't hold a decent conversation and has to use a lot of profanities....?????
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spartafullthrottle15 hours, 1 minute ago
^^^ Ok we will work through this together, jovial the correct colloquial term, is 'circle jerk', you guys are the velveeta, we are well idk maybe brie. We will keep coming in droves b/c this site is effin lame without us, you guys suck at this you really do. Bronx- what was that porn you directed me to? Das site is forboden.
spartafullthrottle5 hours, 49 minutes ago
Yes please enlighten me, b/c I have every f-tard and their brother calling me nixie. By all means ask propeller, we will indeed have different ips, b/c I AM NOT F*CKING NIXIE YOU MORONS.
spartafullthrottle4 hours, 58 minutes ago
If anything I would say I am notorious within the digg realm see (map, missamericanpie and wearesparta). Did nixie have a picture? I mean this is fricken ridiculous I am getting harassed all over the place, b/c you idiots think I am someone else, and it's really starting to **** me off.-
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not2needy5 months, 2 weeks ago
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Eagle_Eye5 months, 2 weeks ago
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I know n2n, (EE eye roll), why would PHB get banned for profanity when this new person seems to delight in using the "f" word and rants/ridiculous in each post......I don't understand this....PHB was pointing out that this person was the same hateful person that had been banned multiple times for posting hateful controversial stories....granted he shouldn't of lowered himself to their level but I know how hard it is to not reply to their rantings.
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There are many on here that I consider to be very close friends, many as good friends, many as acquaintances and then there are some that are down right "terrorists", I have just gotten to the point of ignoring many of them and not responding to them, they are not worth the effort or hassle.-
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not2needy5 months, 2 weeks ago
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PHB was provoked, bottom line, and whose to say who will be the next person this bunch sucks in?? He's not able to walk away without calling it like he sees it, and it got him banned, which was exactly what they plan for as many of us as they can.. THEN they will have Prop all to theirselves, IMO, they can have it.. It's hard enough fighting them, let alone fighting them AND management!
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ameliog5 months, 2 weeks ago
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I could envision this tactic being used. Schools of piranha on attack missions. Infantile, but there will always be this segment of a society and the computer age now allows malice electronic global access.
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If it gets too much n2n, TAKE A BREAK but please do not give up. -
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Nevron5 months, 2 weeks ago
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Ciera-Marie5 months, 2 weeks ago
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While she claims not to be nixie all of her comments are exactly what/how nixie would say them when she'd get fed up. Notice too nixie stuck mainly with alpha. Guess where this sparta person hangs out? On lizbett's submissions and threads.
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Newperson5 months, 2 weeks ago
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I'm not sure I understand all this sockpuppet stuff. I think i have some friends here that are only one person. If any of the people here that really are my friend please send me a list of who is who if you will. Thanks The ONLY NP!
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Maby I don't belong here? And that makes me sad.-
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Eagle_Eye5 months, 2 weeks ago
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NP. you do belong here!!!! If you read my post above yours that contains comments made earlier on another post you may understand part of what we are talking about.
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"Sock Puppets" are users multiple accounts used to prop up stories or drop stories, post comments to themselves or terrorize other members. They are also known as "Trolls"
People get banned and then come back here with new names/profiles but they still go after the same people and write with the same style. They are here just to create as much turmoil and stir the pot of hate as they can.
They attack posters who they don't agree with and some have really foul language and writing skills. They turn a post from great conversation into a hate fest, they post controversial stories from controversial sites just to cause disharmony, IMHO, they are misserable people who like to make others miserable, kind of like the school yard bully-
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Spadecaller5 months, 2 weeks ago
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"They attack posters who they don't agree with and some have really foul language and writing skills. They turn a post from great conversation into a hate fest, they post controversial stories from controversial sites just to cause disharmony, IMHO, they are miserable people who like to make others miserable, kind of like the school yard bully."
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That's how I see it too; but we need Propeller's management to step up and chip in to correct this problem. Asking the community to help monitor the site is one thing, but enforcing and upholding the guidelines of conduct is the responsibility of Propeller's management. Why are they neglecting that responsibility? -
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fiftynine5 months, 2 weeks ago
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"They attack posters who they don't agree with and some have really foul language and writing skills...." That sounds like me sometimes.I am an idiot at times but i refuse to be a rug for morons to walk on...and it is always the same ones....There are some of the people on the right that i disagree with violently on politics but i consider them friends simply because it has never gotten to the name calling crap.
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deathray5 months, 2 weeks ago
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Goppy5 months, 2 weeks ago
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Okay ... okay ... I admit ... after numerous right wing members of Propeller calling me Mesodude and Shixa ... I admit ... ... ... that I'm NOT ...
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LOL!!!
Y'all got me dead to rights ... or is that lefts? ... CENTRISTS?
LOL ...if y'all only knew how conservative I really am ... it's just that ... with all these EXTREMIST right wingers on Propeller ... a veritable coterie of Rush Wannabes .... I look like Che Guevara by comparison.
Although ... I do admit to being deathray ... and quicksilver .... and CRYMTYPHON .... and Mesodude ..... and bluetexasvalley .... and Eagle_Eye .... and Shixa_Reborn, ... and anyone else the Right wants to assign an identity to.
I'm okay with that ... it makes me feel .... OMNIPRESENT!
Oh the hubris!
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Ciera-Marie5 months, 2 weeks ago
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I'm the only Ciera Marie. You do belong here. I have a suggestion though. Please stop sending your music submits to groups that have nothing to do with music. Unless its a protest or political one go for it. Or somewhat humerus. Because it makes it really difficult for some of us to go to the groups when there is everything but the topic of the group. On the old Netscape that was also a definition of sockpuppet. One who would submit something but then send it to all of the channels. I'm saying this because I like music and humor and try to spend most of my time there rather than on the political threads because of all the sock puppets.
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Sageparadox5 months, 2 weeks ago
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Guilty of sock puppettering a while back. It was awhile back when I was stuck at home hooked up to oxygen. So I made up about a dozen sock puppets to hype up the pos on my stories summitted. So I was caught, had all of my puppets whiped out. I was getting kinda sick of competting for stories submitted anyways and created another account, KMFDM. After my lung transplant and propeller changed it format, propeller allowed me create my SageParadox handle again. I guees my sockpuppetting days were nothing to what some people are doing, but just wanted to amit to being a non-concervative that was guilty of sockpuppetting.
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fsev415 months, 2 weeks ago
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Unfortunately, it appears to me that there has been a meteoric rise in possible sock puppet activity since James Marcus left. It seems he was getting fairly adept at spotting styles of those that were banned and came back under new names.
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The increase recently seems to be almost entirely right wing and many abusive or profane or vulgar at least. On the left there has been little recent change in the number of regular contributors and Psychohose was a recently banned leftie but has yet to reappear. I don't believe he would be able to post civil, clean comments that wouldn't be recognized. I'm not aware of a method of determining who the newest members are and how there posting but it certainly looks to me like it's the right that is swarming. Sorry Slate but if you look critically at recent postings you will probably come to the same conclusion.
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Eagle_Eye5 months, 2 weeks ago
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Here is a really good example of a sock puppet...
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http://www.propeller.com/member/trisionder/
only a member for 4 months yet is the top "Propeller Proper" with over 100,000 props...I spotted one trying last week by running a program and in fact I was IM with PHB about this person propping over 1,000 stories in an hour. I IM Tom about it and they did catch them and banned them, yet this Sock Puppet still remains on the boards. It isn't fair to those of us that post stories, prop stories, comment on stories for some one to come in with a computer program and prop themselves to the top.-
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slate5 months, 2 weeks ago
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I never said the right doesn't have them or that they haven't increased,,,,,,,, in the end i don't have a clue for sure who is or isn't a Sp,,,,,,, one poster admitted to doing this in the past and I had no clue,,,,, howver, if we are going to solve the problem then we need to get rid of them regardless of political side or their numbers,,,,, if more are from the right then they should go, if the numbers are largest on the left they need to go. Try to weigh out who the worse offenders isn't really the point here, but getting rid of ALL offenders.
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Spadecaller5 months, 2 weeks ago
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You deserve it slate. I have noticed that some people are stuck -even trapped by their own ideas. And then there are others that are dynamic and growing. Sometimes even though we may not share the same views politically and may even find those views objectionable, we find admirable qualities as well. That is been my experience with you.
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When the rigidness of our own views can be tempered by understanding a different perspective, we can afford to learn from each other. I certainly find that more appealing than 2X4 across the side of the head.-
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jakesguile5 months, 2 weeks ago
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Amen to that Gopps, I don't always agree with what Slate says, but he says it in a very honest and forthright way without insults or mockery so even if I end up negging him for disagreeing with his opinion, I respect him as someone from the other side of the isle, because there are times we're on the same side on certain issues.
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LumFan5 months, 2 weeks ago
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SC, love the video (and the music), and your insight is spot on. I am not on here every day, so I have a harder time spotting those who were banned but returned.
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And I am in the same position as Slate. If I were to be banned (not sure why they would bother with someone like me), I would be banned for good, as I am not that knowledgeable to figure out how to sneak back in. Then again, I have other sites where I tend to hang out. So no big deal. -
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CRYMTYPHON5 months, 2 weeks ago
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Anyone with anything worth saying,
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wouldn't give it to a sock puppet.
Ergo: the best way to id a fake,
is if they never say anything worth hearing . Reply
CRYMTYPHON_SOCK 0%
1 minute ago
That is so true, Mr. Crymtyphon.
You are right; as always!-
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CRYMTYPHON5 months, 2 weeks ago
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Thank you!
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Sock puppets are for losers.
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CRYMTYPHON_SOCK 0%
1 minute ago
Very true, Mr. Crym!.
You are much smarter than everyone else here!-
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CRYMTYPHON5 months, 2 weeks ago
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Ok; shut up now. Reply
Reply
CRYMTYPHON_SOCK 0%
1 minute ago
Sorry, Mr. Crymtyphon.
You sure get angry easily!!-
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Spadecaller5 months, 2 weeks ago
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tdrapeau5 months, 2 weeks ago
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We have not given up the fight against sock puppetry on Propeller. Yes, we have less staff than in times past, and I for one do miss the discerning eye of James Marcus. We don't get to reports immediately, but we do strive for decisive action once we have enough proof.
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I have been forwarded a few lists of suspected sock puppets/reincarnations of former members, and we have people looking into them this weekend. We also do want to be sure we aren't banning scapegoats in place of those who are goading members into saying things they shouldn't in the heat of the moment.
We do strive for the utmost consistency in upholding the Terms of Use. Most cases are unique and for all those that I am involved with, I tend to share with multiple staff members to make sure we are making the right calls.
We are most likely looking at a 2-part solution to recent activity, one part is looking to see which (if any) members should be banned, and the other part is looking into whether or not new features in the product could help in easing the burden on the community to report wrongdoing. We have been discussing this already and will continue to do so.
I hope everyone has a great Fourth of July holiday.-
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Eagle_Eye5 months, 2 weeks ago
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Hi Tom, I love how you do pay attention to the community and our concerns!!! You are always there when I have messaged and questioned. Now you have really big shoes to fill with out JM there with his discerning eye.
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I think posts like this also helps you to understand where the community is at and the frustrations we feel and the things we think need addressing. We know you and the team are busy with a lot of other things to keep this site running and the recent additions to twitter and the editing on story submissions, etc. is really time consuming and is GREATLY appreciated by the community.
I am sure I can say for my fellow member friends on Propeller "Thank You" for your work and have a wonderful and safe Fourth of July!!!!
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