Is America a Democracy or a Republic? »
Posted By btatman22 4 months, 4 weeks ago in Political OpinionThe deliberations of the Constitutional Convention of 1787 were held in strict secrecy. Consequently, anxious citizens gathered outside Independence Hall when the proceedings ended in order to learn what had been produced behind closed doors. The answer was provided immediately. A Mrs. Powel of Philadelphia asked Benjamin Franklin, " Well, Doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?" With no hesitation whatsoever, Franklin responded, " A republic, if you can keep it."
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btatman22
Editor of Fresh Conservative which highlights conservative movements and exposes liberal shenanigans. I am Lutheran, yet not fanatical in my religion. I'll worship my ...
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nostalgia4 months, 4 weeks ago
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The Debates in the Federal Convention of 1787 by James Madison:
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many of Madison's notes, taken during the convention are available online if you are interested in reading them
There is also an interesting set of books: The Founders' Constitution
It is 5 volumes and you can use the table of contents to look up the clause or phrase you are interested in learning more about. Each clause/phrase has the original intent of the Founders including their debates, speeches, minutes, letters, and commentaries -
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Pecossam4 months, 4 weeks ago
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btatman22,
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From the article:
"One indicator of the radical transformation that took place is the contrast between the War Department's 1928 "Training Manual No. 2000-25," which was intended for use in citizenship training, and what followed. The 1928 U.S. government document correctly defined democracy as:
"A government of the masses. Authority derived through mass meeting or any other form of "direct expression." Results in mobocracy. Attitude toward property is communistic — negating property rights. Attitude of the law is that the will of the majority shall regulate, whether it be based upon deliberation or governed by passion, prejudice, and impulse, without restraint or regard to consequences. Results in demago****, license, agitation, discontent, anarchy."
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Pecossam4 months, 4 weeks ago
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(Propeller is having one of its tantrums,again) as I was saying"
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My, but that 1928 Training Manual seems to be describing the Obama administration's way of doing business. Perhaps Mr. "57 states" was mis-taught concerning our Constitutional Republic, as "jakesguile" was in his "High School honors Class"? (see below).
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jakesguile4 months, 4 weeks ago
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CRYMTYPHON4 months, 4 weeks ago
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That above pretty much said it all:
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" anxious citizens gathered outside Independence Hall when the proceedings ended in order to learn what had been produced behind closed doors. The answer was provided immediately"
We citizens are stronger now.
We will not huddle outside, while our masters decide for
us what our government will be.
We decide.
Whoever would have it any other way,
is a slave;
- or wants to be your master.-
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Pecossam4 months, 4 weeks ago
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CRYMTYPHON,
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You state:
"We citizens are stronger now.
We will not huddle outside, while our masters decide for
us what our government will be.
We decide."
I do hope you'll use Article V --- the Amendment process of Our Constitution, when you decide anything other than an election. Let's PLEASE keep it CONSTITUTIONAL, or our wonderful Republic, our Nation of Laws, we be replaced with a Nation of Men --- and History has shown THAT to be a big BUMMER! -
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Georgia504 months, 4 weeks ago
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They met inside, secretly and privately, because the undertaking at hand could have gotten them a long drop from a short British rope. They were deliberately engaged in treason against the British Crown.
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Thus the honorable and courageous were on the inside, and the Democrats were left outside. Important family decisions are usually done the same way. The adults figure it out while the children play outside.
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vader824 months, 4 weeks ago
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The United States of America is a constitutional republic wich is a form of democracy. Pure democracy is mob rule such as in ancient Greece. Under this system their is no protection of personal liberty derived from a bill of rights, and no balance of power within the branches of government.
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truthiness4 months, 4 weeks ago
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there was no ancient greece, you are refering to ancient athens, which is in present day greece. and it was neither pure democracy nor mob rule.
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only the land owning men could vote. not a pure democracy. there was law which gave parameters to their decision making, so not mob rule.
in the rest of the region known commonly as ancient greece, there were other city states like sparta which was ruled by a military junta... for example.
for examples of a true pure democracy you could look to the town hall meetings that some small towns in America still use, or the communist kibbutzim of Israel, or the Native American tribes of the Northeast which became known as the "5 Civilized Tribes" and influenced Jefferson heavily.
not that any of that changes the fact that we are, indeed, a republic primarily because the founders did not trust the people.
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vader824 months, 4 weeks ago
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The United States of America is a constitutional republic wich is a form of democracy. Pure democracy is mob rule such as in ancient Greece. Under this system their is no protection of personal liberty derived from a bill of rights, and no balance of power within the branches of government.
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JoeModerate4 months, 4 weeks ago
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"America is a republic, not a democracy" --I've always wondered where this talking point came from. Anyone know who started this and why? What a useless canard. A republic is a form of democracy (representative government). What's the sense of making them sound like opposites, unless you are a black-and-white thinker or are trying to sling mud on the name of a particular party... uh huh.
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calitennflo4 months, 4 weeks ago
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In a democracy , the powers of government are vested with all the people...as it was we the [people that ordained the Constitution...it says it in the preamble to the Constitution...see...Congress did not....a president did not...alol the people did...and they did it using english as their language...not something called a book of lies that Congress uses today...and Oboma uses too!
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CRYMTYPHON4 months, 4 weeks ago
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Pecos, bttatman, etc - I have had enough.
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I, not you, am decended in straight line from the founders of this nation.
I have property and land and breeding;
providence has selected me to be the one to
decide the course of this nation.
Mine is that burden;
and yours is the glory to acknowledge it.
You are the masses, ungrateful for your lot,
itching to interfere in matters too high for you.
Return to your fields now!
- and leave your masters to decide what
is best.
What, did you think this was a democracy?-
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Goppy4 months, 4 weeks ago
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Several compelling lines of thought there.
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I especially like ...
"You are the masses, ungrateful for your lot,
itching to interfere in matters to high for you."
That was great.
I also like ...
"Mine is that burden;
and yours is the glory to acknowledge it."
Although, that second one ... I'm sure that will go STRAIGHT over the heads of those you are addressing.
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Pecossam4 months, 4 weeks ago
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CRYMTYPHON,
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And I can see by your comments you're totally out to sea when it comes to understanding The Constitution. For it is the Constitutional Republican form of government which would NEVER allow a would be despot such as yourself from ever having power --- unless the majority of people remain ignorant of our Main Law.
Wait a minute! That's right. They ARE IGNORANT of it and that's why they don't give a fig if Obama (with your eager encouragement) IGNORES The Constitution he has SWORN to UPHOLD.
You'll eat one another once it is completely destroyed and you are a mere Nation of Men, like any other Third World Country. Good Luck trying to get it back once it is gone!
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Goppy4 months, 4 weeks ago
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Yes, unfortunately, I must say that you have a case, Natureboy.
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There is FAR too much money centered in Washington.
If we could just get rid of Lobbyists ...
The corrupting influence of Lobbyists have done SO much damage to our Republic ... and to our Democracy.
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fjgalt4 months, 4 weeks ago
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Democracy, in its pure form, has been described as 9 hungry cannibals voting to eat the 10th or two wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner.
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In the past, democracies have degenerated into dictatorships once the masses discover they can vote in representatives who will steal from some to give to them.
Fredric Bastiat: Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.
Our forefathers preferred the republican form of government, using ancient Rome as an example. It is in a Republic that individual rights can be protected. -
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Goppy4 months, 4 weeks ago
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Well ... we are experiencing difficulties ... due to those who seek to divide us with partisan rancor.
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Of course, given that these people control Mainstream Media ... it make it very difficult to maintain our Republic.
People like Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, Glenn Beck, Michael Savage ... these people use their pulpit to deride and mock traditional American Values.
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I hope Americans are righteous enough to withstand this onslaught.
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fjgalt4 months, 4 weeks ago
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"The American system is not a democracy. It is a constitutional republic. A democracy, if you attach meaning to terms, is a system of unlimited majority rule; the classic example is ancient Athens. And the symbol of it is the fate of Socrates, who was put to death legally, because the majority didn’t like what he was saying, although he had initiated no force and had violated no one’s rights.
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"Democracy, in short, is a form of collectivism, which denies individual rights: the majority can do whatever it wants with no restrictions. In principle, the democratic government is all-powerful. Democracy is a totalitarian manifestation; it is not a form of freedom . . . .
"The American system is a constitutionally limited republic, restricted to the protection of individual rights. In such a system, majority rule is applicable only to lesser details, such as the selection of certain personnel. But the majority has no say over the basic principles governing the government. It has no power to ask for or gain the infringement of individual rights."
Leonard Peikoff, ”The Philosophy of Objectivism” -
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fjgalt4 months, 4 weeks ago
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Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide. – John Adams (1814)
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Democracies have been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and in general have been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their death. – James Madison
The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. – Thomas Jefferson -
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jovial4 months, 4 weeks ago
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A Republic maybe, a Democracy maybe, actually a pure democracy not. Being a pure Democracy would be too much like socialism. We couldn't have the people making things fair could we? So what is our government? Neo-fascist? Well let's look at our government it performs predominantly in favor of big businesses and less so to the people. The only exception is at election time. At election time promises are given, after election government goes back to business as usual. Once in a while, the people are thrown a biscuit for pacification. We are under surveillance, and we have no knowledge of to what extent. We are being watched like amoebas on microscope slide. Once in awhile intervention is needed, but the boundaries are set. So how does this fit into Republic or Democracy? Does the rewriting of the constitution by the Executive's lawyers, and the implementation by Congressmen and woman eager to obtain their attached earmarks constitute a Democracy or a Republic? I say we are neither. We are a little of everything. Republic, Democracy, Socialist, fascist, and a few more thrown in for good measure.
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