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Arkansas Democrat Has Votes to Block Socialist Healthcare »
Posted By btatman22 4 months, 2 weeks ago in Political OpinionU.S. Rep. Mike Ross (D-AR) says that he has more than enough votes to stall out the proposed socialist healthcare plan being promoted by the Obama administration. Representative Ross, who is a member of the House Energy and Commerce committee, is a self-appointed fiscally conservative democrat (who knew?). “Last time I checked, it takes seven Democrats to stop a bill in the Energy and Commerce Committee," Ross told reporters after a House vote. "We had seven against it last Friday; we have 10 today." If these Democrats do indeed wield their power to stop this socialist healthcare reform, they will force the issue to get stuck in committee indefinitely, which is where it belongs.
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btatman22
Editor of Fresh Conservative which highlights conservative movements and exposes liberal shenanigans. I am Lutheran, yet not fanatical in my religion. I'll worship my ...
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tadair9194 months, 2 weeks ago
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Goppy4 months, 2 weeks ago
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Actually ... there aren't ANY provisions in the bill that force people into Socialized Healthcare.
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Basically, the ONLY people who say that ... work for Insurance Companies or Pharmaceutical companies.
These are companies dedicated to making a profit ... and when it comes to People's Health Care ... this model has been proven to be contrary to American Values of Justice.
Why?
Because ... Insurance Companies ONLY want to insure you ... if you have NEVER ... EVER ... been sick before.
Thereby making it impossible for MILLIONS of Americans to afford Health Care Insurance.
Of course, Modern Republicans don't care about MILLIONS of Americans ... they only care about living in their dreamy past.
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Goppy4 months, 2 weeks ago
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I should say ... It's difficult for me to imagine ANY person in America who would be so naive to think that the 'system' in place now ... isn't MORE expensive ... and MORE detrimental than WHATEVER plan is developed.
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For instance ... as expensive as the "Clintoons' (as y'all love to say) ... Health Care proposal was ... y'all have paid MORE ... for doing NOTHING ... than the Clinton proposal would have cost.
Why?
Because all those UN-insured Americans that you couldn't care less about ... are making your premiums skyrocket!
How?
Because ... get this ... Americans STILL get sick ... EVEN WHEN THEY DON'T HAVE INSURANCE!!
Can y'all believe that?
Of course, y'all probably think them's all Liberals gettin sick.
But even so ... them sick Liberals are MAKING YOUR PREMIUMS SKYROCKET.
Here's the reason ... they go to the hospital ... BY THE MILLIONS ... but can't pay ... soooooooo ... the insurance companies STICK YOU with the bill!!
Just think ... y'all thought you were being smaht ... not havin to pay for your fellow Americans ....
But guess what ... NOTHING is free.
Who knew?
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slate4 months, 1 week ago
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Page 15
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22 (d) No CHANGES TO EXISTING POLICIES.—
23 (1) OPTION TO RETAIN CURRENT INSURANCE
24 COVERAGE.—-With respect to a group health plan or
25 health insurance coverage in which an individual was
Page 16
1 enrolled prior to the effective date of this title, this
(NOTE the term PRIOR)
2 subtitle (and the amendments made by this subtitle)
3 shall not apply to such plan or coverage.
4 (2) ALLOWANCE FOR FAMILY MEMBERS TO
5 JOIN CURRENT COVERAGE.—With respect to a group
(Once again see CURRENT?)
6 health plan or health insurance coverage in which an
7 individual was enrolled prior to the effective date of
(PRIOR)
8 this title and which is renewed after such date, fani-
9 ily members of such individual shall be permitted to
(PERMITTED?)
10 enroll in such plan coverage.
11 (3) No ADDITIONAL BENEFIT.—Paragraph (1)
12 shall only apply to individuals described in such
13 paragraph and the family members of such individ-
14 uals (as provided for in paragraph (2)).
15 SEC. 132. LIMITATION ON SELF-INSURING.
(PAY ATTENTION to LIMITATION)
16 Subpart 2 of part A of title XXVII of the Public
17 Health Service Act (42 U.S.C. 300gg-4 et seq.), as amend-
18 ed by section 121, is further amended by adding at the
19 end the following:
20 "SEC. 2720. LIMITATION ON SELF-INSURING.
21 "A group health plan that has 250 or fewer members
22 of the group shall not self-insure such group. The Sec-
23 retary shall establish guidelines for determining the num-
24 ber of members in a group for purposes of this section."
I’m no legal scholar and legalese is intended to be confusing to the layman like me for a reason, but doesn’t it sound like if you don’t already belong to a ‘private plan’ once this goes into effect that you will be forced into the Government plan?
So in essence, if you aren’t in the work force now or you don’t have a private plan that is provided you through your job, or you have said coverage that you’ve purchased, then you will not have the “option’ to go the private route once this is signed into law?
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Wolfie20074 months, 2 weeks ago
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We can only hope and pray that someone will derail this assault on our health care system. I'm looking for an article regarding page 16 of the house bill about who can and can't and when buy private health insurance. It's a real deal killer, I hope.
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Goppy4 months, 2 weeks ago
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Beau78904 months, 2 weeks ago
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Wolfie, because I don't believe for a second that you know what's on page 16 of the House bill, I've taken the liberty of copying it below.
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Could you please specify what on page 16 of the House bill you object to? Feel free to refer to line numbers if you wish.
16
1 SEC. 102. PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP CURRENT
2 COVERAGE.
3 (a) GRANDFATHERED HEALTH INSURANCE COV-
4 ERAGE DENIED.--Subject to the succeeding provisions of
5 this section, for purposes of establishing acceptable cov-
6 erage under this division, the term “grandfathered health
7 insurance coverage” means individual health insurance
8 coverage that is offered and in force and effect before the
9 first day of Y1 if the following conditions are met:
10 (1) LIMITATION ON NEW ENROLLMENT.--
11 (A) IN GENERAL.--Except as provided in
12 this paragraph, the individual health insurance
13 issuer offering such coverage does not enroll
14 any individual in such coverage if the first ef-
15 fective date of coverage is on or after the first
16 day of Y1.
17 (B) DEPENDENT COVERAGE PER-
18 MITTED.--Subparagraph (A) shall not affect
19 the subsequent enrollment of a dependent of an
20 individual who is covered as of such first day.
21 (2) LIMITATION ON CHANGES IN TERMS OR
22 CONDITIONS.--Subject to paragraph (3) and except
23 as required by law, the issuer does not change any
24 of its terms or conditions, including benefits and
25 cost-sharing, from those in effect as of the day be-
26 fore the first day of Y1.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/15/house-hea... -
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BB644 months, 1 week ago
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Don't worry, you and I won't be able to find private insurance. You see the government run HMO will set prices so low, those of us with real insurance will be charged huge fees to make up for it. The private insurance passes those costs to the clients. Eventually, the insurance companies will stop selling health coverage and everyone will be under the government death plan. The only good here is we won't have to worry about social security reform. Nations with socialized medicine see sharp declines in the senior population around the 10 year mark. Great, just when I would have retired....
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slate4 months, 2 weeks ago
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rbiii4 months, 2 weeks ago
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BB644 months, 1 week ago
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"You GLADLY spend $1 TRILLION a year on the military ... equal to what all the nations in the world spend ... COMBINED ... but you can't spend ONE TENTH that for Health Care?"
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Then you should visit me in China. They're spending tons on a new military. New tanks, rifles, rockets, planes, ships and space. China is also spending millions in Africa. Buying up millions of miles of resources and spreading their version of capitalism. While you folk sit back wanting to go back to the 1930's depression. Oh, wasn't that your goal? Sure seems that way to me. -
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BB644 months, 1 week ago
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The Rinos and Blue Dogs won't have the stones to stand up to the onslaught the DNC will hit them with. If the DNC fought terrorism like they do conservatives, there would be no terrorists left but they don't. All they care about is how much power they can get from and for the party and how you and I should live. We're told to cut back & reduce. they on the other hand fly in private jets paid for by you and I. This plan is a great example of Dems at work. It's a policy to reduce the services to you and I while exempting their unions and other special classes from this totally. It's a scam. I've even seen where they want to include the VA in this program taking funding from them or billing them.
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Dems Rule, "Do as I tell you to do not as I'm doing."
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Fillifan4 months, 2 weeks ago
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Goppy4 months, 2 weeks ago
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There ARE millions of Americans who hate this bill.
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Unfortunately ... they hate America ... and AMERICANS ... as well.
For ... how could you be aware that there's a problem ... a MASSIVE problem ... a problem that weakens our industry ... our businesses ... our economy ... and our health ...
... not to mention contributing to millions of foreclosures every year due to families incurring stupendously outrageous medical bills ... for routine illnesses?
So who are these naive, silly people?
They have their own insurance through their mega-large employer ... and they are fine ... so why worry.
And of course ... there are the millions of people who work for Insurance companies ... and ... Pharmaceutical companies.
The Modern Republicans have taken their side against the Middle Class for 30 years ... even forcing Americans to pay 10 times what it costs Canadians for drugs.
And ... a true sign of the TOTAL Moral Vacancy of the Modern Republican ... they even CRIMINALIZED our American Seniors for trying to buy less expensive drugs in Canada.
Disinterested in American Business
Nonchalance for American People
Unconcern for American Competitiveness ...
It all adds up to turning your back on America.
And Americans.
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Not to mention being Morally Vacant.
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BB644 months, 1 week ago
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Wow, have you ever read anything not written by Karl Marx? Look at your glorious socialist paradise, the USSR. Where the medical care is free. For radiation poison, vodka. For headaches, vodka. High blood pressure, vodka. Are you seeing a pattern? If you're a member of the protected class, in this country, unions who pay Obama protection money. I mean campaign contributions. That's why the UAW, teachers unions and government employees are not on this plan.
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As to your other stupid comments, did you hear about the new aids, prostate and breast cancer treatments from Russia, UK or Canada? Neither have I. There is no money for R & D. Their drug companies are restricted to copying our research and products. In the UK, they don't use known chemo treatments for breast cancer because it's too costly. They send the woman home to wait and die. The other story you never hear about are the long waits. Again in the UK they've added larger parking areas for the ambulances. Parliament issued a law that you had to see a doctor within 4 hours of checking in. There is a huge shortage of doctors in countries with socialized medicine, so rather than correcting the shortage, they've added parking. And yes the engines remain on helping your green house gasses. Yep, you're right your DNC health care will be great. For the GOP to kill off. It's either that or the Obama-Marx social program for population reduction becomes a reality. -
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tadair9194 months, 2 weeks ago
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all those fake Republicans that already voted for the stimulus and the bailout funds have already showed their true colors.
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Lets see if the same back-stabbers who voted for socialism for the wealthy, will vote for socialism for the poor. -
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Albmore4 months, 1 week ago
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I disagree that if you hate this bill you hate America and Americans. I agree with health care reform put do not like Obamas plan. That dont make me anti America or even Anti Obama. We do not live in a dictatorship where we must agree with Obama or be unAmerican.
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Beau78904 months, 2 weeks ago
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Ah, thwarted by Propeller again. I'll break my comment--which was flagged as spam because it contained more than one link--into two:
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Correction, Fillifan:
There are millions of citizens who don't understand what the bill says who hate this bill.
Many objections are based on misinformation.
If you'd like to read the bill, you can download the PDF here:
http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_111/20090714... -
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BB644 months, 1 week ago
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Wow, over 1000 pages. My current health care plan isn't that long and clearly outlines what is and isn't covered. But then again, my insurance carrier didn't have Congress "helping". Once again the Dumas of the Obama Socialist Party will pass this without actually reading it.
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Beau78904 months, 2 weeks ago
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If you'd like to see a summary of key points in the bill, you can download that here. It's MUCH shorter:
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http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_111/20090714... -
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Beau78904 months, 1 week ago
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Read the damn bill to avoid displaying your ignorance.
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The bill provides subsidies to buy insurance--public or private. It is also mainly funded by a surcharge on those making over $350,000 a year, a higher threshhold than the $250,000 level at which taxes were not to increase.
The bill also includes incentives and credits to help small businesses cover their employees so that they won't be penalized or bear an undue burden. It will actually cost less for small businesses to insure their employees with either a public or private plan than it does now.
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BB644 months, 1 week ago
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So when do you realize by doing this, you will greatly reduce the buying power of those with money. If you tax me over 50%, how many things won't I buy. New car? Not as soon as I should. Get the house fixed? Probably not. Vacation, can't afford it. The same goes for my company. hit them hard and they close the US plants down for good. The Chinese and Indian plants are now getting the expansion funds originally slated for the USA. It's cyclical. Over tax me and I pull back. The same goes for business. Get used to the Obama recession. It's going to be here for a very long time.
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Beau78904 months, 1 week ago
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slate, I responded to Global_Warmer's comment about this above.
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(Comments are beginning to show up in the wrong place, so I hope you see this.)
The section in question on page 16 defines "grandfathered" private plans--that is, plans that were in existence before passage of the bill that don't have to meet the qualifications set out in the bill for inclusion into the "insurance exchange" set up by the bill.
Private insurers will still be able to offer coverage, and people will be able to choose that private coverage, but new plans set up after the bill takes effect (or that aren't "grandfathered in") will be subject to some limitations. For instance, they won't be able to exclude people with pre-existing conditions. -
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beavith14 months, 1 week ago
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only when they argue for policy that will destroy the US economy.
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ooo.
and after it destroys the economy, it'll prevent any recovery too.
actually, what i'm saying is that the wealthy pay a disproportionately large fraction of taxes. the lowest 50% effectively pay nothing.
but that's not enough for you and the progressive elite don't think they are paying enough.
so go ahead. take from the rich and give to the poor. that's a pernicious idea with bad outcomes for everyone. -
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BB644 months, 1 week ago
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David, how many MRI's are in Canada? I mean for the general population. Not the government use or their military, if they still have one. From last count, the city of Milwaukee had more than their whole country. How many people in Canada die because they simply can't wait around long enough for bypass surgery or cancer treatments. The path you want us to follow is far more deadly. If population control is what you're after and the elimination of seniors, you're on the right path. If you're truly the type wanting to help people, you've chosen the wrong road.
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I do understand this because a cousin living in Calgary had to have bypass surgery but was told she'd have to wait. Rather than sitting around waiting to die, she chartered a private ambulance plane and flew to Mayo. Paying this totally on her own. It cost her home, car and business but she's alive today. She started a for profit business and now has recovered financially by helping others get treatment here in the USA. It's big business. So again, socialized feel good help sounds good but it really isn't a good option. I hope you never have to see the restrictive nature of communist medicine.-
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david_nwpa4 months, 1 week ago
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Sorry, but your anecdotal claims do not wash. I have also been in Canadian hospitals, and they are top-notch. Besides, Canada is not the only country with socialized medicine. Consider England and Germany, both of which have excellent standards of care. All medicinal needs are met, and very few people complain. They certainly do not get hit with huge medical bills.
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david_nwpa4 months, 1 week ago
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For all of you naysayers who applaud these Democrats stalling the bill, and all the Republicans who want to keep the status quo, how many of you have to decide between your next meal and your health insurance? How many people will die because they did not have adequate health coverage in a time of crisis? How many hospitals will be pushed closer to ruin because insurance companies are not paying them their due? As is, this nation has well over 45 million people without health care coverage of any kind! They make too much money to claim Medicare, and not enough to afford health insurance. Meanwhile, they work 2 part time jobs and can barely afford life. Surely, that is better than rocking the boat with the insurance companies!
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fjgalt4 months, 1 week ago
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Since I got negged for posting two news story links without comment, I thought I'd post this link. It's from a John Stossel 20/20 special on health care.
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John Stossel - Sick in America
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Global_WarmerComment removed: Abusive10 Replies
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btatman224 months, 1 week ago
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One key facet of the bill is called "Shared Responsibility". It talks about creating shared responsibility between the individual, employers, and government to ensure that all Americans have affordable coverage of essential health benefits.
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Let me share a story with you about "Shared Responsibility."
An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had once failed an entire class.
That class had insisted that Obama's socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.
The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama's plan".
All grades would be averaged and everyone would receive the same grade so no one would fail and no one would receive an A.
After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy.
As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little.
The second test average was a D. No one was happy.
When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F.
The scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else.
All failed, to their great surprise, and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed.
Could not be any simpler than that.-
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CRYMTYPHON4 months, 1 week ago
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Btatman gave us a long essay.
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It was about responsibility.
Ignore for the moment
our responsibility to post truth;
ignore that posting lies is irresponsible as poisoning the local well.
Let us responsibly consider his words on responsibility.
He averages grades in a class till no one bothers to study.
Okay; that is believable as a thought experiment.
But does it count as an analogy?
Is a class room the same as a nation?
If so, then America must become a fairer classroom,
where the talented can rise and the lazy do
not rest on the work of others.
Let all children receive health care,
so they have the same chance to study and work to earn
grades that measure their effort.
Let no kids slide by because they inherited a
million 'A's from their granddad.
Hey, it's an idea that Jefferson would have considered dangerously revolutionary.
Could not be simpler than that.
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lloydm654 months, 1 week ago
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JohnGault4 months, 1 week ago
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Try China; I hear it is nice when the wind from the sea blows the poison air away.
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Well, they do have socialized medicine!
CRY, we have the greatest Doctors and Hospitals in the history of human kind, I just don't want to see a bill passed for the sake of passing a bill. Pragmatism, is Obama calling card, then lets see it.
First we need to understand the problem, the problem is not the quality of health care, but the runaway expense.
What is causing the dramatic increase in expenses?
As I see it (in no particular order)
Lawsuits, in both premiums and CYA procedures and tests
End of Life treatments (This is a tough one, but if we are going to be honest, something that has to be dealt with)
Illegals, again I cannot blame them for seeking treatment, just leaving them to die in the streets, is well... insane. However we need to track the cost to understand its full impact. The fact that we don't speaks for itself.
Last is medicine the most expensive part of bringing a new medicine to market, is not the research, but clinical trials, I have not heard anything about revamping the FDA?
If I missed anything would like your feedback.
(copied from a previous post, too lazy to re-write, besides I am trying to read this bill, if I could, just stop myself from posting)
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CRYMTYPHON4 months, 1 week ago
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Roaches!
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Well, that isn't very nice.
I like your ideal of helping the needy, Lloyd;
I am in favor of you giving all your wealth to the poor and following Christ.
Pity that isn't what we are talking about.
No one wants your grudging charity;
This isn't about anyone asking you for help.
It is about what makes a nation strong;
and what duty a nation has to be strong.
A literate work force,
a healthy population,
an economy that provides a promise of prosperity;
These are nessesities for America;
and anyone calling themselves a citizen
can be part of achieving it;
- or move to one of those countries where people are temp slave worker units;
to be bred and used and disposed of like paper cups.
Try China; I hear it is nice when the wind from the sea blows the poison air away.-
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JohnGault4 months, 1 week ago
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according to reliable health care quality measures,
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we rank below Morrocco.
I think I know what measures they are using?
Infant mortality rates
Life expectancy rates
I don't think you can use those to determine the quality of health care.
Is that what you are referring too?
I know, I know.... I'm posting and not reading -
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beavith14 months, 1 week ago
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you're right!
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A literate work force,
a healthy population,
an economy that provides a promise of prosperity;
problem is, you can only choose two.
you can plow all your economic vitality into education or health.
and have nothing to show for your work. no retirement, no relaxation, no capital investment.
what'll it be.
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Icantwait4 months, 1 week ago
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My Fellow American: I am against a National Health Care Program. Does that surprise anyone? Goppy, although I generally do not agree with much of what he says, pointed out some very valid facts. Uninsured people getting free medical care. That is killing the entire system of our present Health Care.
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My solution is simple, do away with insurance companies, government assistance, and National anything. Reach into your pockets and pay your own bills for a Medical Procedure. That's right, you get medical help you pay the bill outright. You can't afford it, get a loan and then pay it off. Medical expenses will go down. Drugs will go down. Doctors will make the kind of Profit they expected when they spent a fortune to become a Doctor. Only a retired individual will get some form of Medicaid. No more free health care for anyone but fully retired individuals. Billing them will have to amount to the same price tag as any other person off the street.
Before Insurance companies, before insurance agents, before government programs, before Medical Clinics, how did we manage to survive. We took care of our own colds, sore throats, flus, delivered our own babies, and cured most of what we could. Let's go back to the old days. The Real American-
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CRYMTYPHON4 months, 1 week ago
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Why 'you can only choose two?'
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A country that does not invest in its citizens,
is no diferent than a company that does not
invest in itself.
Without decent health care and education,
no country can have a viable economy.
All three! Whole banana or nothing. -
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fjgalt4 months, 1 week ago
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You aren't a humanitarian. Where's your guillotine? Where are your armed thugs so you can steal from others so you can be a savior for the poor and downtrodden?
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The Ant and the Grasshopper - Revisited
An old Aesop* fable tells of the hard-working, industrious ant who labored all summer and fall, growing food and making the necessities of life so that he could survive and live comfortably through the coming winter. The grasshopper was a fun-loving, carefree soul who played and rested while nature's summer provided for his needs without labor. He laughed at the ant for working so hard when it was unnecessary. The ant admonished and warned the grasshopper that he had better provide for himself when winter came, but the grasshopper wouldn't be concerned about the future, especially when he was enjoying himself so much today.
Eventually, the summer passed and as autumn progressed, food became scarce and the grasshopper began to hunger and shiver in the cold. When winter approached, he rapped on the ant's home and begged for food. The ant reminded the grasshopper of his warning. He could not provide for all the grasshopper's needs without depriving himself and his family, but he gave what he could of food and clothing, hoping the grasshopper had learned his lesson.
In modern times, however, the ant would not be allowed to keep what he had earned. Instead, the story would go something like this.
The insects' government would send out armed cockroaches to the ant's abode and they would take half of what he had earned so that they could distribute it to those they thought deserved it more.
After all, they would say, is it fair that the ant should have so much while the poor, starving grasshopper has no shelter and so little food and clothing? Why must he beg for charity? He has a right to live, doesn't he? If it means stealing from others, so be it.
The grasshopper is provided with food, clothing and shelter at the ant's expense. When next summer comes, what is the lesson the grasshopper has learned? That it is still unnecessary to provide for the coming winter. The cockroaches will simply take what he needs from that stupid ant who insists on working so hard.
But what is the lesson the ant learns? Will he work as hard next summer? Will he scale down the amount of food and necessities he will need for the winter, so that there won't be as much for the government cockroaches to steal? Will he hide some of the food that he worked so hard to produce? Will he take what he produces and run to some place without cockroaches?
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Global_WarmerComment removed: Abusive1 Reply
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antibrainwasher4 months, 1 week ago
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Real American Turd, its like your thinking in 1700's, before penicillin.
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An NMR for medical diagnosis costs 10's of millions. I tell you what, you take care of your self when you need open heart surgery, the rest of us will cooperate and have medical care, and your grave stone will read the Real American idiot. -
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scott42614 months, 1 week ago
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Mike Ross is a DINO. We liberals in Arkansas have long known that. But then so is every other Democrat in Arkansas' congressional delegation, save Vic Snyder from the 2nd Congressional District (which includes Little Rock).
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I don't know why the first three attempts to post the above comment were "spam." Propeller has had some server problems lately... -
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Klarissa4 months, 1 week ago
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Congressional Job Approval
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Poll Date --------------------------____Approve ___Disapprove Spread
RCP Average 5/28 - 7/12 _____32.0 __________57.3____ -25.3
Direction of Country
Poll Date _______________Right Direction Wrong Track Spread
RCP Average 7/5 - 7/13 ____36.2 _____________55.6 _____-19.4 -
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Global_WarmerComment removed: Abusive7 Replies
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