Crazy Wingnut Healthcare Attacks Exposed »
Posted By Progressive 4 months, 1 week ago in Political OpinionPredictably, as healthcare reform grows larger in the window, the claims from the far-right are becoming increasingly bizarre and ridiculous, topping, in some cases, the psychotic claims of, say, the Obama birthers.
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Progressive
There are only two kinds of people who are really fascinating: people who know absolutely everything, and people who know absolutely nothing. -- Oscar Wilde
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Newperson4 months, 1 week ago
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Goppy4 months, 1 week ago
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I don't think that the majority of Modern Republicans even know what they are opposing ... or why.
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They just oppose EVERYTHING that Obama advances ... on principle.
Such is the mindlessness of Ideology ... and those who have become slaves to it.
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Gayland4 months, 1 week ago
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Rent the film "Sicko". Yes, it's biased in favor of state run health care, but it does clear up some misconceptions about what
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health care is like in other countries. Doctors make a good living while getting bonuses to help their patients lose weight and stop smoking. They don't start their practices in debt from student loans and then feel the need to over treat to make up their losses. In France, they have doctors that make house calls in the middle of the night. It's cheaper than mildly ill folks clogging emergency rooms. -
moonstream1Comment removed: Spammer, Hard Banned5 Replies
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moonstream1Comment removed: Spammer, Hard Banned3 Replies
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moonstream1Comment removed: Spammer, Hard Banned5 Replies
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dunkirk4 months, 1 week ago
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This has to scare the insurance companies and the drug companies big time. They have been feeding insane propaganda to the masses for years, that drugs in Canada are unsafe (yet they manufacture them there too, maybe Canada requires truth in advertising), that the high costs of prescription medication hjelp "offset" the cost of development (yet the soct of development seems small compared to the record profits they reap), etc etc etc..
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CaptainLucid4 months ago
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I love when they make the argument that Canadian drugs are unsafe. The natural followup is to ask them why the drugs they make here and sell to Canada are unsafe? Want to testify in front of the Canadian government that the drugs you are selling are unsafe? That will shut them up quick.
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chip564 months, 1 week ago
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So you idiots want to turn everybodys healthcare over to the GOVERNMENT? Are you out of your minds? Those jerks can't even run the cafeteria in the capital building without screwing it up. Do you want some government employee telling you the treatment you need isn't "cost effective"?
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They aren't even reading this bill they just want to ram it through before anyone catches wise to what they're doing.
If they get this thing passed, everybody gets screwed... not just us "neocons". You too libs. Illness doesn't have a political preference.-
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Progressive4 months, 1 week ago
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FTA:
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No matter how the Republicans, Blue Dogs and the establishment media try to come at this thing, they're only really left with arguments that are easily shot down, arguments that inadvertently endorse the most positive aspects of healthcare reform, or arguments that are just insane.
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FairNBalanced4 months, 1 week ago
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Goppy4 months, 1 week ago
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I've thought about it.
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The issue is that we had to spend BILLIONS of dollars to bail-out the mess that GW put our nation into ... with his lack of attention ... and incompetence in managing government.
In fact, there are some who say this was intentional ... leaving a mess ... so that Obama could not implement a Health Care Solution.
Stop and think.
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FairNBalanced4 months, 1 week ago
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Have you had a good experience at the post office lately?
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How bout' government run clinic's or state health departments? Good experience there?
Would you rather go to a hospital run by the government or the private sector?
Be careful what you wish for.-
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hyperbola4 months, 1 week ago
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Well you get what you pay for.
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In countries that provide better health care than the US (France, Germany, Spain, Australia, Japan, .....) the national health schemes are able to provide decent care for the whole population spending less of their GDP on medicine than in the US.
By the way, about your "scare" tactics. Virtually all of those countries have private systems that run alongside the national systems for those who wish. In none of them are you limited in what doctor or hospital you choose to go to.
Stop trying to sell us strawmen. -
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Goppy4 months, 1 week ago
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I've had WONDERFUL experience at the post office!
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ABSOLUTELY WONDERFUL!!!
My postal workers are kind, courteous ... and very friendly.
And the service is OUTSTANDING!!
LISTEN TO THIS!!!
I sent a birthday card to a friend in Alaska .... for FOURTY FOUR cents!
Guess what ... unbeknownst to me ... he had moved to California .... well ... the POST OFFICE ... forwarded that letter to him in California .!!!!
Can you believe it?
I didn't have to do ANYTHING ... and best of all ... it didn't cost me anything EXTRA!
Now THAT'S service.
If I had used a Modern Republican PRIVATIZED Service ... I would have had to pay a surcharge ... plus added fees ... and who knows when it would have gotten there.
Bottom line ... you probably shouldn't have brought up the US Post Office as an example of 'bad' government service.
PS ... I wouldn't bring up Medicare either ... it's one of the best run Government programs.
Can I offer you some suggestions?
Since you believe ... apparently ... that PRIVATE entities are superior to government entities ... maybe you should provide examples of how PRIVATE companies do such a better job of things .... .... like .... ....
ENRON
or
Adelphia
or
TYCO
or
Lehman Brothers
or
Merrill Lynch
or
COMCAST
or
Home Depot
or
Walmart*
or
AIG
or
The Hartford
or
Country Wide
...
I can go on ...
and on ...
and on ...
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chevydog4 months ago
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FairNB - Sometimes this gets a little silly. Just who do you think works at government operations? They're the same people that work at any successful or even unsuccessful company. They're educated (or not) by the same teachers, at the same schools, from the same textbooks as everyone else. In a short phrase, "they" are us. Govt employees are not bred on some special farm and fed food to make them incompetent.
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I happen to think that education has not really progressed in this country and could do a better job; though I can't put my finger on just how. Think that it may be a combination of factors that are unique to each certain situation. But when you rant about govt not being able to run something, what you're really saying is "the average US citizen can't be trained to do even simple operations." Dunno, maybe you believe that. I certainly don't. Not because I have any particular govt agency to defend; just out of simple logic. If "they" can't do do it, "we" can't either; and vice versa. .
There are real reasons not to be thrilled with many of the health care reform proposals being currently floated about. But IMHO "govt not being able to run anything" is a bogus one.
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Progressive4 months, 1 week ago
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FTA:
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...the money being pumped into the effort to kill healthcare reform doesn't come along with a mandate for veracity or sanity in order for the checks to be cut. The private healthcare industry is buying whatever scares people. Whatever confounds the facts. Whatever kills healthcare reform and the public option by a thousand cuts. Whatever works. -
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JohnGault4 months ago
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Ahhh the old poison the well fallacy, anybody who disagree with this plan is a wingnut. After reading his article, he himself is a wingnut.
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Tell me why I should support this bill?
Because more people will be covered? Really, are people being turned away from emergency rooms and doctors? The reality is, the only way they are going to reduce cost and usage is to deny procedures. If you don't believe me, do the math for me. How? Read the bill, listen to Obamas statements, look up and scan through CRITICAL by Tom Dashle.
The danger is once it up and running, trying to unwind it is going to be extremely difficult. You believe in this bill, because of the altruistic sentiments that this brings, but those are not going to be the results.
We have the greatest hospitals and doctors in the history of human kind, is the system broken, no, but something has to be done, but this is not it. Work on controlling the costs, not controlling the system.-
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Beau78904 months ago
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Controlling the system is how you control costs. Private insurers currently control costs by limiting payments, procedures and teratments, in addition to excluding patients who are likely to file large claims.
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The government will control costs by following the same fee schedules as private insurers, and by examining procedures and treatments to produce the best outcomes, as well as by reducing administrative costs. Excluding patients likely to file large claims is unethical and, well, hateful, and will soon be illegal. It will control the system only to the extent that it eliminates those kinds of unethical practices; other than that, the reform before Congress controls costs.
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Icantwait4 months ago
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My Fellow Americans: Here we go again. The Liberals, Radicals, Progressives, Moderates, and Go Pee are claiming the present system is too expensive. That is their whole argument, when Money doesn't seem to be a real issue with them. Higher taxes is what they try to sell the rest of us. We should be happy to pay higher taxes as Biden put it. However, let's save money on Health Care at the Expense of the Lives of those paying the Bills.
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Illegal aliens, instead of sending them home or cutting off our benefits to them, we must give them the same pass as those in Congress who want nothing to do with the New Health Care Proposal.
Go Pee, you and all your mindless supporters, what are you being promised to push Nation Health Care? Have you and your little Petty Masters Degree made a deal with the Devil to promote a Program that is not only Stupid but Dangerous?
Evidently you will be needing Health Care quite soon so if what you keep pushing for is Great Health Care it will most likely be your Last Health Care. We Won't Miss You or your Commy Attitude.
There are those that don't even want to pay for any kind of Health Care at this time. They certainly don't want to be forced to pay for care they don't want or need right now. Where is their freedom of choice. There are those that don't want to purchase a Health Care Plan, they're called Illegal Aliens, but want us to provide it to them Free. Where is our Freedom of Choice to refuse them. There are those that want it and Purchase a Great Insurance Package at a very Low Cost. They feel they may need it and so they set themselves up for their future needs. Right now everyone gets Health Care. No one is refused Health Care in an Emergency. There is no Crisis. Just the Obama Do It Or Else Crisis. The Real American-
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Progressive4 months ago
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Illegal aliens comprise less than 15% of the 47 million uninsured in the US. They are hired with impunity by those who exploit their cheap labor while refusing to contribute to the social services upon which the poor must rely simply to live. None of them can afford insurance and emergency rooms at hospitals across the country are closing because medical facilities are staggering under the ranks of uninsured seeking emergency treatment due to their inability to afford preventive healthcare--14,000 Americans per day are losing their insurance, mostly as a result of losing their jobs.
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The insurance companies are paying millions of dollars to frighten the public into believing the lies you espouse above.
You may not want or need healthcare right now, but we all need it eventually...and if you reject healthcare reform now--you are more likely than not to be among those left to die at the door.
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Natureboy4 months ago
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Right-wing wingnuts are attacking the reform plan.
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That doesn't mean that all who criticize the plan are wing-nuts. There's a helluva lot wrong with it. The lefties should have smelled trouble when Max Baucus the Bought, who has received more money from the insurance industry than any other member of congress, headed the "HELP" committee. That's like having Idi Amin head your human rights committee.
The devil is in the details with the "public plan." It's not pre-populated as Medicare was, the feds themselves are saying they anticipate only 9 million or so in it by 2015. This means it will not have the purchasing power or the negotiating power needed to win cost-effective contracts with provides. It will be inaccessible to employees of large employers until at least 2015, the list goes on.
This is not a case of the perfect being the enemy of the good. This is a case of the putrid being the enemy of the good. This is fake-ass reform, and the most terrible thing about fake-ass reform is that it tends to displace and delay real reform. Expect to be told, if this stinkbird passes, "it hasn't kicked in yet, just wait until 2013." Or 2015. Or 2019. A decade worth of inaction will fly by before you know it. -
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Progressive4 months ago
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...and where were you expecting real reform to come from? Baucus's GOP counterpart has received nearly the same amount of money from the insurance industry.
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/32113318#3... -
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rimbaud4 months ago
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The economics of the profitability of Health Care Insurers will continue to be a problem until the risks and rewards of the entire population are evenly spread among them. Maybe we need a system that directs coverage costs in an even way among all health insurers, and passes an even premium, that reflects those costs, on to the whole population. Otherwise, the free market compels insurers to attract healthy subscribers, by offering low-cost plans with high deductibles and copayments, while the system must somehow absorb high-cost ill patients, that no insurer wants to be saddled with. Maybe health insurance should be like TV service, you have choice of a few in your neighborhood, and might have to pay more for whatever extras you want or need: but what you pay goes into a pool from which all insurers can draw to pay claims. The pool of money not required to pay claims can be invested for profit (which is the traditional role of insurance companies). At the end of the year, those insurers that have done well (negotiating lower payments, cutting costs or denying claims) get a bigger portion of what's left in the pool, as the profit to pay their investors.
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Now that the Democrats have delayed the vote until September, maybe we can lobby for a true, single-payer, socialized-medicine plan.
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