Henry Louis Gates: Déjà Vu All Over Again - Stanley Fish Blog - NYTimes.com »
Posted By deathray 4 months ago in Political Opinion
Stanley Fish puts the Henry Louis Gates incident - and the president's reaction - in context.
Read Full Story at fish.blogs.nytimes.com »
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deathray
Hm...summarizing a life...Investment banker, sailor, unintentional gourmet cook. Ex US Naval officer, also Foreign Service. Split my time between NYC and Miami Beach ...
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deathray4 months ago
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noted conservative thinker stanley fish opines about the gates arrest, and puts the president's comments in context, as well:
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fta:
"I’m Skip Gates’s friend, too. That’s probably the only thing I share with President Obama, so when he ended his press conference last Wednesday by answering a question about Gates’s arrest after he was seen trying to get into his own house, my ears perked up."
i rarely agree with prof. fish, but i was happy to see this in his blog; remember, that stan fish is a noted constitutional lawyer; i'd take his comments to heart.
play nice, people...-
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deathray4 months ago
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now, it's possible that 'gates arrest fatigue' has set in, given that the president, prof gates, and sgt. crowley will be engaging in 'beer diplomacy' tomorrow, but i felt strongly enough abouth this opinion to post it to the propeller community.
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we'll be returning to our regularly scheduled programming tomorrow. -
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Beau78904 months ago
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I've seen many commenters (both here and in various media) who think they're demonstrating impartiality in their opinions of the incident by ignoring Gates's experiences as an African-American. They believe it's fair to judge Gates's and Crowley's actions and Obama's statements as if they existed in a vacuum, entirely independent of context.
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I'm pleased to see Fish give write a succinct piece that puts it all into perspective. The debate about "special consideration" vs. "color blindness" will no doubt go on for decades to come, possibly longer. But this essay neatly summarizes the background that should at the very least, have a place in the consciousness of everyone who opines on the matter. My hope is that while knowing the historical context may not "excuse" Gates's behavior or Obama's comments in the minds of many, at least it will inform their judgments of the professor and the president. -
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deathray4 months ago
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fta:
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"Now, in 2009, it’s a version of the same story. Gates is once again regarded with suspicion because, as the cultural critic Michael Eric Dyson put it in an interview, he has committed the crime of being H.W.B., Housed While Black.
He isn’t the only one thought to be guilty of that crime. TV commentators, laboring to explain the unusual candor and vigor of Obama’s initial comments on the Gates incident, speculated that he had probably been the victim of racial profiling himself. Speculation was unnecessary, for they didn’t have to look any further than the story they were reporting in another segment, the story of the “birthers” — the “wing-nuts,” in Chris Matthews’s phrase — who insist that Obama was born in Kenya and cite as “proof” his failure to come up with an authenticated birth certificate. For several nights running, Matthews displayed a copy of the birth certificate and asked, What do you guys want? How can you keep saying these things in the face of all evidence?"-
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deathray4 months ago
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"He missed the point. No evidence would be sufficient, just as no evidence would have convinced some of my Duke colleagues that Gates was anything but a charlatan and a fraud. It isn’t the legitimacy of Obama’s birth certificate that’s the problem for the birthers. The problem is again the legitimacy of a black man living in a big house, especially when it’s the White House. Just as some in Durham and Cambridge couldn’t believe that Gates belonged in the neighborhood, so does a vocal minority find it hard to believe that an African-American could possibly be the real president of the United States.
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Gates and Obama are not only friends; they are in the same position, suspected of occupying a majestic residence under false pretenses. And Obama is a double offender. Not only is he guilty of being Housed While Black; he is the first in American history guilty of being P.W.B., President While Black."
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deathray4 months ago
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"it is very interesting to me that all the folks who are angry at the President and Gates are the same ones who turn around and say that Obama’s election proves that the nation is no longer racist.
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Thank god they are becoming a minority." -
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deathray4 months ago
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"Your column repeats what everyone else has said: there was a conflict so the police officer MUST be at fault. Why? Because of the history of racial conflicts in our country. But, you have failed to take this occurrence on its own facts. And those facts suggest that Henry Gates was the race-baiter, not the police officer.
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By your own words, it would seem that Henry Gates has years of built-up frustration with real or imagined racial slights. He was tired that day and upset that his door was damaged. So, perhaps he turned and took out his frustration on the first person who questioned him about it. And, that person was the police officer."
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lfergie8124 months ago
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Yes there is a problem. With the policeman for not dismissing all incidents after it was determined that Gates was indeed the owner of the house and it was just one big mistake by the 911 caller.
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With Gates for not understanding that the officer was there because of a 911 call of a possible break-in. And when the officer asked for identification, he should not be offended because it matters not whether you're black or white, the officer has a responsibility to make sure the person breaking in is indeed the owner.
Now if there is something I'm missing about what actually happened here, this is the way I see it. The officer was overacting because his authority was being challenged by a black man and Gates was overacting because he was being challenged by a white officer because he was black. A nice cold beer will do wonders. It sure makes ugly women look pretty at closing time. -
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Charlson4 months ago
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Saw Countdown last night and got a glimpse of the 911 call by Gates' neighbor who didn't mention blacks in her call at all, only a possible hispanic, and also said she wasn't sure they were burglars or not because she also saw two suitcases on the front porch next to the front door.
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Evidence now shows that the Crowley jumped to conclusions about the situation and he lied on his police report. In a court of law if you lie once the rest of your testimony is suspect. -
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tanglang4 months ago
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"Gates and Obama are not only friends; they are in the same position, suspected of occupying a majestic residence under false pretenses. And Obama is a double offender. Not only is he guilty of being Housed While Black; he is the first in American history guilty of being P.W.B., President While Black."
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Really DR, I love ya bro but I have to drop this. Maybe if the neighbor who called 911 had said something like "there some black guys going inside the house" instead of 2 men used their shoulders to break open the door, I might say that she had soem race issues. But she didn't. When dispatch asked her their race she said she couldn't see tell. Maybe if the cops and the witnesses had different stories about what happened I'd say that there could possibly be a story there. Maybe if one of the cops was not black himself. Maybe if the white cop did not have the record he has.
There is no story here.-
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Beau78904 months ago
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There is a story here, because the article isn't about who is to blame.
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Crowley was within his legal rights to do what he did. And we can understand why he got upset--he's paid to protect the citizens of Cambridge. Gates was within his legal rights to get angry, so long as he didn't resist arrest or assault Gates. And we can understand why he saw the officer's aggression in racial terms--as the article says, he's faced numerous instances of people assuming a black man can't live in a nice house. Obama was within his legal rights to give his opinion, and we can also understand why he'd defend his friend, and why his racial experiences may have colored (sorry) his judgment.
We all probably agree that the most peaceful possible turn of events would have involved Gates and Crowley controlling their tempers and Obama remaining neutral on the subject, and then move on to examining why everyone reacted the way they did. But we can also understand why the participants didn't do that.
The article is about what may have motivated Gates and Obama to believe what they did. Understanding at those motivations may very well defuse similar situations in the future. -
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deathray4 months ago
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no worries tl, you know i don't take drops or sinks personally.
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the issue is actually a complex one, and it's easy to polarize the debate; i've been guilty of that in this case as well.
as beau points out, the issue is related to attitudes and presuppositions that are rife in our culture, and they may be deeply rooted in the race relations that have plagued the republic since the 3/5 rule.
it's important to bridge this gap, and i think that being aware of the sensitivities on either side. that's why i support president obama's approach to 'beer diplomacy.'
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tehranchik4 months ago
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I love this!
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http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_di... -
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cleare4 months ago
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i'm sorry, but i gotta ask the question...
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why did so many officers turn up with guns drawn for a possible "break in"???
most neighborhoods in america would have gotten a drive by, perhaps a couple of cops with a flashlight. whazzup??-
sonofreasonComment removed: Hard Banned1 Reply
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Endoscopy4 months ago
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What guns drawn. You are the one over reacting. There was only one policeman there to start with and he acted professionally asking for ID and explaining why he was there. Others came there just in case it was a real crime. Gates was the one ranting and shouting racist garbage from the start. The college people were called in after the ID was handed over and verified. Gates was warned several times after they were outside and the police were trying to leave. He would not stop shouting. He had kept it up long enough for the college police to get there. That is what got him arrested.
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icono14 months ago
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To assume is to make an azz out of u and me.
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Or as Mark Twain said;
"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
Gates and his allies have given their side of Gates story and Crowley with his allies have given Crowley's side of the story. So with that in mind, maybe 0Bama and his 'bier summit'(I go with Guinness and Red Strip as the official beers of the 0Bama bier summit. yet I guess a regular Bud will work also.) will produce an official White House statement about his and or their side of the story. Every thing else is 'speculation about the motivation' of all three parties involved.-
sonofreasonComment removed: Hard Banned1 Reply
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mark-stevens4 months ago
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Shame on the quite... In Iran they risk death demanding their rights. In America they arrest you.
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All of you second amendment fanatics, are you going to stay quite when they take that right away from you? The second is about the only amendment still standing.
I'm suffering disabilities from police misconduct... and I'm a business owning white guy.
If you get busted on false charges, can you drop $30,000 in attorney fees to have the cops in court admit that they had lied. If you can't, than you are S C R E W E D -
noonrock-34Comment removed: Spammer, Hard Banned
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Wolfie20074 months ago
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Try this one.
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http://www.propeller.com/story/2009/07/28/cnn-vide...
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