Reporting and Moderating Content on Propeller »
Posted By tdrapeau 3 months ago in News
Active members on Propeller have seen the temperature rising in comment threads over the past few months. Hot button topics, such as health care reform, Obama's birth certificate, conservative and liberal pundits, and of late, Ted Kennedy's passing, have served as fodder for some very unpleasant exchanges. We have for the most part stood back and allowed members to talk it out amongst themselves, although it has become clear that we have fallen short in our duties to police the worst of the worst. This failure has hurt our active members, as well as passive readers who would consider becoming members but decide against it after reading the comment threads. We want Propeller to be a place where people can argue the merits of a story, while feeling safe from undue personal attacks in retaliation for one's point of view.
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tdrapeau
Tom Drapeau is the Director of Propeller social news. He enjoys all manner of geekery and internet foolishness. He has seen every episode of Battlestar ...
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FunnyBoyz3 months ago
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Dear Tom
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This is a good initiative to start with, I have surely seen some rather immature comments here and there but then I guess it is hard to stop the conversation going on. But then again I guess it is good to keep a healthy conversation.
I highly recommend we also remove SPAM comments that are made by spammers in some busy submissions. I have seen many spammers leave spam comments in health section. I recommend a more vigilant action against such spammers. Some sort of filter like Reddit would be great as well.
Also the News section should be more selective as to what is being submitted in the past I have reported many spammers who spam the category just for sole reason of advertising and SEO.
Thank you again.
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DenCuddy2 months, 4 weeks ago
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mesodude2 months, 4 weeks ago
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hyperbola2 months, 4 weeks ago
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From time to time we repeat the same old arguments on Propeller about "censorship" of the uncomfortable. This must be the fifth or sixth time (including the netscape era) that this comes up.
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Fortunately, so far the insidious element of censorship has never been allowed to creep in. From time to time some "flammers" turn up with incendiary and personal attacks, but they tend to disappear/be ignored rather shortly after arriving. NO censorship (other than of spammers making commercial advertisements) is needed. If there is hatred, it is useful that all of us see it and where it comes from. Pretending that it doesn't exist by suppressing it is counterproductive.
Personally I regard the "invisible comment" mechanism as another form of unnecessary censorship that inhibits discussion. There is a tendency for "stories" to circulate amongst "semi-closed" subgroups that seem to need to boost each others egos with mutual approbation. The most useful discussions often start when "opposing" facts/opinions/stories are presented within the context of the "subgroups". The "invisibility" mechanism is already being used as a means for suppressing "uncomfortable" information in the semi-closed threads. Propeller should get rid of this means of censorship.
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engineer3 months ago
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berkeley3 months ago
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not2needy2 months, 4 weeks ago
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I agree with some reservation, berkeley.. While the block feature does remove some of the disturbance, it also allows trolls to trail us, undermine us and sling mud at us without our being able to defend ourselves, and oftentimes "block them" is a convenient way for management to get out of actually dealing with problem.
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tehranchik3 months ago
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You can take the hate out of the threads but you can't take it out of the users.
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I was appalled at some of the hate comments in the Kennedy submits - but I wasn't surprised.
Something my mom used to tell me, 'never discuss politics, religion or sex in public'. And here we are in the thick of it.
These three issues have been 'hotbed' of discussions for years. Now we have the 'invisibleness" of our computers. I don't want to make excuses for the hate but I do like knowing where it comes from.
I'm very curious to see how it will be handled here at prop. -
JoseMadreComment removed: Hard Banned
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Newperson2 months, 4 weeks ago
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I would like to thank you Tom and the fine staff at propeller for makeing this a fun place. I look forward to the up coming changes. I hope it cuts down on some of the spam. Sometimes it's like a big advertising network. But I have come to enjoy the stories and friends i have found here.
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Thanks for all you do. Peace:)-
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orndorffter2 months, 4 weeks ago
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Np you are so right when you say, sometimes its like a big advertising network and someone always wanting to sell you something. We are here to but out News and not to read a story that has nothing but advertising in it, news is what I look forward to. And Tom I think it it just great what you are doing.Thank you.
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JoseMadreComment removed: Hard Banned
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JoseMadreComment removed: Hard Banned21 Replies
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gamahuche2 months, 4 weeks ago
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Things HAVE been heated.Thanks for noticing, Tom!
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I'm glad that efforts are being initiated at home base and hope that more civility will be manifested.
OTOH its inescapable that the polarisation of the US has been proceeding apace and its inconceivable that a public internet forum like propeller would somehow be able to always float on calm seas,gentle zephyrs billowing its virtual sails.
I do have more thoughts about what the most insidious and actively dangerous energies that have been unleashed recently signify but for now I'd like to see where this conversation goes. As many people may realise I care for propeller a lot and it serves an important function in my life by keeping my communication with the English-speaking world on a front burner. -
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MereMortal2 months, 4 weeks ago
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Collapsing comments that are under 50% could be a pain. This could allow a group to gang up on one person. Maybe a threshold system similar to slashdot that allows you to customize your view. Some may want to only view comments rated over 75%. Some may prefer 50%. A few may want to see all the ugliness.
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tdrapeau2 months, 4 weeks ago
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MereMortal--great feedback. I LOVE the slashdot system myself, which not only de-emphasizes low rated comments, but also emphasizes the high rated ones.
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I could see us building towards this at Propeller. I'm in favor of letting what we have out into the wild to see how it affects comment threads in practice.
One thing we have not yet built is a story-level link (like we do with "View All X Comments") that says "Expand all collapsed comments". We could build that in if need be.
I'm interested to see what you all think of things after tomorrow's launch. -
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not2needy2 months, 4 weeks ago
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MereMortal, ganging up on one person happens a lot here on Propeller, and in the last month or so i have been the victim of it on 2 separate occasions. That's why i'm not crazy about the block feature.. It also allows people to gang up on you without you even being able to defend yourself.. Not many people are willing to stand with you and defend you when there's a gang of people attacking you, that's when you find out who your friends are.
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beavith12 months, 4 weeks ago
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jeez, n2n. you've got to grow a thicker skin. :-)
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seriously, i don't see a problem with wading into a (ahem) liberal discussion to add my two cents. i look at 0% as a badge of honor in those cases. and its not about throwing bombs. its about getting out divergent viewpoints that wouldn't otherwise be discussed.
that's why i'm rather concerned that low prop% collapse is nothte way to go. its a rather insidious lid on discussion.
and i don't mean insidious as evil. i mean it as the ultimately unnecessary stifling of free speech.
we can read the negative percentage(s) now and that's all i'd need to see. throttling the discussion is not what i'd like to see. except for the spammers hawking products. that sucks. -
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MeaJen302 months, 4 weeks ago
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Maybe you could do some research, now that the comments are being collapsed. Maybe it should take more than one neg vote to put you below 50%. Maybe you should start out with an assumed 100%. There are too many drive by neg's who neg everything certain people write - not for the content, but WHO wrote the comment.
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I personally do not like the new collapsing comments.
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epiphannyy2 months, 4 weeks ago
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I am glad to see attention being paid to this situation, but I do hope that safeguards are put into place so that it doesn't devolve into an atmosphere of censorship. While the vile comments are tough to wade through at times, if it comes down to a choice between allowing the vile comments or censoring people's input, I would rather just learn to ignore those who choose to be ugly rather than have them banned entirely.
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It's a slippery slope...I just hope it doesn't go too far. I'm glad I'm not the one choosing whose words to silence and whose to allow to flow. I am glad that at least the extreme hostility hasn't gone unnoticed though. -
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Eagle_Eye2 months, 4 weeks ago
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I am so glad to see that you and the team are aware of the problems that are arising on the threads and in the promotion of the stories and am glad you are making adjustments to try and combat the abuse that is going on. I find my self getting seriously disgusted over some of the posters on here that are so nasty and negative and know that I have wandered away because they will consume the whole site with their postings using a multitude of sock puppet accounts.
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I have been noting the continued pattern of users postings and the puppets that are propping their stories and it is quite evident that they are using multiple accounts to prop their stories up to the front which in turn shuts our stories off from making it to the front.
It is really frustrating to go on the site only to see a multitude of sock puppets voting up stories and I have tried to bring attention to this, here is a great example of a sock puppet and it's army....
http://www.propeller.com/story/2009/08/29/biologis...
The first 20 props were done by the sock puppets to get the story to the front page then other users propped it. It was a good submission but it was done dishonestly....how do we stop this???
Also, I am getting really tired of the "self promoters" that are posting their personal sites and then creating sock puppet accounts to prop their stuff to the front page...how do we stop that???? Just look at our front page now and you can see them.
I love Propeller and think you and your team have been doing a wonderful job and know it is hard trying to keep up with all of this but it is good to know you are aware of the problems and are working on a solution to keep our site a civil one. Keep up the great work!!
ALSO, you don't need to read a whole story to know it is tasteless and worth dropping, there are headers that tell you every thing you need to know with out reading the post...here is a great example:
"Never Let a Good Funeral Go to Waste on The Patriot Room »
Posted by: RTHTGakaRoland 4 hours, 49 minutes ago in Political News
Here we have the Kennedy family pimping small children to ask God to push a political agenda. Classless pieces of trash
( A video clip of ...""
See you know it is "TRASH" before even reading the article.
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raats6662Comment removed: Retracted by user11 Replies
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not2needy2 months, 4 weeks ago
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I gotta say fritz, i have to agree with you.. Trying to figure out a way to give them carte blanche to call us names, attack us and do what ever they want, without banning them for violating TOU! lol.. Thinking that if they collapse their comments, it means they didn't really attack us! How pathetic.
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tanglang2 months, 4 weeks ago
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Tom, I would say the biggest problems with this site are the comments that have no purpose other than to attack someone and the posters who stay on their cross one day a week whining about being a victim of what they themselves spend the other 6 days doing.
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3 posters attacking one calling him a scumbag and white trash accusing him of ganging up on the three of them is just sad. Especially when all that poster was saying is "why can't you debate the issues? Are personal attacks all youre capable of?"
That's my two cents on this. Thanks for getting on this Tom.-
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tdrapeau2 months, 4 weeks ago
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mntnman444Comment removed: Spammer, Hard Banned2 Replies
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tanglang2 months, 4 weeks ago
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I looked all over this thread and so far I don't see where wolfie did any such thing. I understand that you would love to label me as a hypocrite for not calling out conservatives but the fact is, I rarely even look at who posted the comments on here. I read through the comments and if I see one worthy of a neg, I neg it. If I see one worthy of a pos, I look to see who posted it. If I reply, I generally look at the posters profile. If I see one worthy of reporting, I report it and check the posters profile to see who they are and why they felt the need to post such a vile remark.
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I don't really care who writes the comment. I care more about what it says.
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Natureboy2 months, 4 weeks ago
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"Lastly, we are going to collapse comments that have less than a 50% approval rating, once they have accrued enough total comment votes."
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Great idea! Censoring unpopular ideas is the best road towards really challenging discussons and courageous discovery of the verities!
Maybe we could all just watch network news... -
BjornAntonioComment removed: Retracted by user5 Replies
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BronxBomber2 months, 4 weeks ago
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I've seen some members take a very low road, stop talking politics in a thread, and just sink to personal attacks, now I'e recently have embarked on a personal quest to tell the other side of the political party, the right wingers whom I've known in my early days here when Propeller was Netscape back in the day. some of them have enough class not to take the low road, who do espouse their viewpoint w/o stooping for example; to cursing you're mother out. To disagree w/o being disagreeable, also that they can neg,and drop you're stories that they see fit, no hard feelings about it...whatever, but to leave the personal attacks, and the name calling out, and I will do the same.
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RedWhineComment removed: Hard Banned
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jovial2 months, 4 weeks ago
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That would be unfortunate Klarissa, because you have been a good trooper here. You have been wrong in my opinion on more than a couple occasions, but I never felt like you weren't at least listening. However, leaving is a personal decision and if that's what gives you the least grief, I say,"Go for it!" Life's too short to be miserable.
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Klarissa2 months, 4 weeks ago
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I have made some statements, been called a liar and worse.
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I have put up the backup, from a reputable source - and then just get called names and even more worse.
It bothers me that when there are legitimate statements and someone disagrees with the statement or doesn't have a counter statement the disagree-er attacks the messenger.
I will say, that I rarely see the source on liberal statements, but they often sound as if they are talking statements that they receive in their mail.
I do agree that there are a lot of submissions, based on blogs and not on a regular news source like ABC, NBC, Fox, NPR that should be listed under opinion.
And it bothers me that the word "hate" is used to describe someone's opinion just because the commenter disagrees with the statement.
Actually, I am about ready to leave propeller - too many personal attacks when I have tried to use valid news articles.
Thank you for bringing up this subject and opening it up for discussion - I would like to read Mesodudes and Goppy comments on this subject.-
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MeaJen302 months, 4 weeks ago
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Yes, you should stay! I enjoy what you have to say, although I don't "always" agree. But at least when you make a comment I can 1) read it, 2) understand how you came to that conclusion, and 3) ask you for proof and you will give it. Those are the kind of people I want to read!
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aceofspades12 months, 4 weeks ago
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TD - lately Prop has been overrun by both exiles from Digg & sockpuppets, some of whom have been lying in wait to pounce for many months, much like sleeper cells.
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Just check over the posts on this thread & you will see a dearth of those eho post the most virilent stories & comments. they hide behind the anonymity of this venue.
I. myself have been guilty of posting personnal attacks, but the frustration level brought about by the unrelenting venom posted by these people leaves no other recourse.
My other problem is that the front page is overly inhabited by stories that generate no discussion & seem to be arbitrarily placed there. A little miore editing of the front page would be welcome.
BTW I am against censorship, but some judicial balance would be appreciated.-
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not2needy2 months, 4 weeks ago
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I agree aos, censorship isn't the answer! When people violate the terms of use, they should be banned and not allowed to keep coming back,, No one should be allowed more than one id, and those are the things that need to be policed, not collapsing comments that get a set number of negs so they don't have to police the site! That's a cop out.
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jovial2 months, 4 weeks ago
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A lot of Digg rejects. I amused myself by reading the Digg comments on a certain recently terminated person that submitted a lot of controverial stories. It seems that person was a pain over there at Digg also. In a matter of fact the person has numerous memberships to different social sites. Once a pain, always a pain I say. What I really got mad about was outright blatant racist remarks in a story recently. The n word was used without reserve and it was two of them ganging up on one black guy. I reported the situation and refreshed the page to see that someone had propped the racial statement. I immediately checked to see who would prop such a set of racist comments. I know who that person is now and hte facade they are showing here onpropeller hides a much uglier person that is behind it. If anyone missed the action, PM me. I will give you more details. For that reason I am guilty of dropping any story that this person submits. Sue me.
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aceofspades12 months, 4 weeks ago
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Another thing TD - although it is nice to see that little "featured member" thing on the side, what do you have? the same six members on a continuous loop? mix it up a bit.
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Also what happened to the short lived poliy of dropping or flagging a posted article when the drops outnumber the props?-
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not2needy2 months, 4 weeks ago
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They whined and boo hooed about being censored and freedom of speech until they got their way, so why even have the drop feature if it's going to be disregarded if the babies can't take being dropped.. This is all a matter of caving to the conservatives, bottom line.
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tanglang2 months, 4 weeks ago
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Certain liberal posters openly talked about how since propeller has more active liberals than conservatives that they could ground any story they wanted to regardless of what the story was about.
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When you have a site that is pretty much run by the members (as this site was with that feature) you will always have one side who is in charge and naturally they will bully the other side because they can't win on facts. -
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tdrapeau2 months, 4 weeks ago
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We should have some new featured members, I agree. :-)
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Who would you suggest?
As for story grounding and marking stories as controversial, that feature still exists. We tweaked the variables a bit in the hopes that stories would be available for reading a bit longer before pulling the plug on the ones with many drops.
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lloydm652 months, 4 weeks ago
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Explain please.What is the high road,would it be calling President Bush,and every one he associate with every ugly name in the book.Of course the low road is bad mouthing Obama,and his czars,and goons.If that's the way its going to be,I need instruction on how to resign properly.
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not2needy2 months, 4 weeks ago
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What would you have us call Bush and his gang of bandits after the way he and they pilfered everything this country had to offer?? You have a lot of nerve to complain about us calling Bush names when in the very next sentence you go off on the Obama name calling.. It just never stops on here. I hate this place!
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lloydm652 months, 4 weeks ago
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You people started it nearly nine years ago,I will barely have four years to get even.Bush as a slug couldn't hold a candle to his sleaze ball replacement.I sorta enjoyed four,and one half percent unemployment,I hated his four hundred billion dollar budget deficit,until we got a glimpse of Obama's two trillion dollar deficit.It may be to late now,but in a few short years you'll have another chance to vote for the white guy.
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gwhiddon2 months, 4 weeks ago
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jovial2 months, 4 weeks ago
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Another crappy thing I dislike is people like this Moonstream character that copies and pastes the same lines across every story he disagrees with in CAPS! It's so annoying. I try to ignore it, but it shows such a lack of etiquette. What's so bad is he sometimes posts the comment over and over again. It's akin to the townhall yellers who try to shout you down.
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mntnman444Comment removed: Spammer, Hard Banned9 Replies
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tanglang2 months, 4 weeks ago
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HEY EVERYBODY!..I WAS NOT HUGGED AS A KID SO I FEEL THE NEED TO POST IN ALL CAPS...EVEN BETTER IS THE FACT THAT EVERY SENTENCE IS CONNECTED BY PERIODS...ISN'T THAT JUST SWELL?..
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I think that about sums up people who come on here and post in all caps. Perhaps we are all going to hell for making fun of someone who has a vision problem but I'm willing to take tat chance.
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