The First Chapter of Romans Matters »
Posted By pacodecabra 1 month ago in ReligionMost who know the Bible would agree that Paul’s letter to the Romans is not the easiest book to read. But while it does contain some fairly serious theology, that’s not the biggest problem that people, both inside and outside the Church, have with it. Romans makes us uncomfortable, mainly because it says in no uncertain terms that we are all sinners who need to be saved from our sin. And the first chapter of the letter describes some of that sin in blistering detail.
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cowboygrandpa1 month ago
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"So yes, Paul does indeed condemn homosexuality. But I think that some people express outrage at Paul’s condemnation of homosexuality simply to draw attention away from other things he condemns just as forcefully, such as any type of sexual immorality, which from a Biblical perspective is any sexual activity outside of marriage. He then goes on to list sins such as elevating ourselves above God, idolatry, greed, envy, murder, deception, hatred of God, pride, lack of mercy, hatred, insolence, and just about anything else we as humans could possibly do wrong. And that’s the whole point: we all need a savior because every one of us is guilty of something deserving God’s punishment."
That is what I keep trying to tell those who want to argue about homosexuality alone. They want their sin to be alright, while all others are still a sin worthy of death.
God does not distinguish between sins when one is still in sin. The one sin that will condemn all is the rejection of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.
So to those who think that only homosexuals are being looked at as being sinners look again !!!!
That is just a ploy used by ones wanting their sin to be excused.
It doesn't work, nor does it help one see the truth. It will lead to death spiritually, just as all sin will.
People, Jesus Christ is waiting for you to open the door to Him. You can go to Him just as you are. You don't have to clean up first. He will clean you and heal you. You will know a Love so deep that it will astound you. I know. Because He saved me. And I was probably much worse than most of you.
He loves you so much, He died for your sins so you don't have to.-
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Dionys1 month ago
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"The most crucial text for Christian ethic concerning homosexuality remains Romans 1, because this is the only passage in the New Testament that explains the condemnation of homosexual behavior in an explicitly theological context. The substance of Paul's exposition begins with a programmatic declaration in 1:16-17: the gospel is "the power of God for salvation to everyone who has faith, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed through faith for faith; as it is written, `The one who is righteous will live by faith.'" The gospel is not merely a moral or philosophical teaching that hearers may accept or reject as they choose; it is rather the eschatological instrument which God is working out in the world.
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Paul is undertaking in his own way to "justify the ways of God to men" by proclaiming that the righteousness of God (dikaiosyne theou) is now definitively manifest in the gospel. As a demonstration of his righteousness, God has "put forward" Jesus Christ, precisely in order "to prove at the present time that he himself (i.e. God) is righteous" (Rom. 3:25-26). For Paul, the gospel that proclaims God's justice is also a power, "the power of God for salvation" reaching out graciously to deliver humanity from bondage to sin and death.
The genius of Paul's analysis lies in his refusal to posit a catalog of sins as the cause of human alienation from God. Instead, he delves to the root: all other depravities follow from the radical rebellion of the creature against the Creator (1:24-31). In order to make his accusation stick, Paul has to claim that these human beings are actually in rebellion against God, not merely ignorant of him. The way in which the argument is framed here is crucial: ignorance is the consequence of humanity's primal rebellion. Because human beings did not acknowledge God, "they became futile in their thinking, and their senseless minds were darkened." The passage is not merely a polemical denunciation of selected pagan vices; it is a diagnosis of the human condition. The diseased behavior detailed in verses 24-31 is symptomatic of the one sickness of humanity as a whole. Because they have turned away from God, "all, both Jews and Greeks, are under the power of sin." The aim of Romans 1 is not to teach a code of sexual ethics; nor is the passage a warning of God's judgment against those who are guilty of particular sins. Rather, Paul is offering a diagnosis of the disordered human condition: he adduces the fact of widespread homosexual behavior as evidence that human beings are indeed in rebellion against their creator. Homosexuality, then, is not a provocation of "the wrath of God" (Rom. 1:18); rather, it is a consequence of God's decision to "give up" rebellious creatures to follow their own futile thinking and desires."
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memestryker1 month ago
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First of all, Paul lived many years after Jesus of Nazareth, back when we didn't record things with video, etc. so we could corroborrate stories. I think Jesus, whether one man or the work of a group, as some scholars hypothesize, was historically speaking an amazing genius of the human mind. He also was a Jew, and never stopped being a Jew.
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Romans doesn't frighten me, except maybe from the standpoint that those who happen to buy into that particular flavor of cultural engineering (Paulism) and folklore (whatever version of the ancient writings considered "Christian" one subscribes to) and who might try to force it on others who don't share that belief.
I've tried to figure Paul out, and I can only guess maybe he was short and ugly, with both short man syndrome and resentment that women were not attracted to him. Or maybe he was gay himself, so he's doing like so many televangelists do, and practicing the very behavior he preaches against. -
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TheNewsseeker1 month ago
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I am also convinced that we aren´t allowed to drop some parts of the Bible, only because they´re uncomfortable to us, although I know that the first chapter of Paul´s letter to the Romans is an obstacle for many homosexuals to become Christians. I had (and sometimes still have) a serious problem with Paul´s attitude towards women. Subordination and being calm don´t fit in with my temper. On the one hand, I think that Paul is still in the jewish tradition, where women were honored and appreciated, but simpy didn´t appear in public. On the other hand, it is important to see the context and what Paul demands of the men: They should be ready to give their lives for their women. Getting aware of this fact, I couldn´t see the women-hater in Paul any more.
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cowboygrandpa1 month ago
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"He then goes on to list sins such as elevating ourselves above God, idolatry, greed, envy, murder, deception, hatred of God, pride, lack of mercy, hatred, insolence, and just about anything else we as humans could possibly do wrong. And that’s the whole point: we all need a savior because every one of us is guilty of something deserving God’s punishment."
Can't ya see people. God is trying to say everyone needs His forgiveness. There is not one of us who does not need the Righteousness of Jesus Christ, put on our account in order to be found acceptable to God.
Not one of us !!
It is truly sad for me, because my own children have not yet come to the Lord. But they have seen the change in me. They are amazed to say the least. But I'm praying, and I'm believing that all of God's children will hear His Word, and come to Him.
My mom came to Him just a little while back, she saw the change in my life and believed that there had to be a life changing force in Jesus Christ. For she had witnessed the sorrows and misery caused by my blindness to sin.
She's in her 80's. She wishes we had been able to reach my dad before he passed.
Please. Give Jesus Christ His opportunity to work in you. If you decide that it is not for you. Well you can always revert back to what you were. Though why one would choose to is beyond me.
Thank you for at least reading this and thinking on it.
There is hope my friends. My prayers are for you. My happiness is in knowing that His Love never fails. For He never fails. -
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Dionys1 month ago
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"Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts (ATIMIAS). Even their women exchanged natural (PHYSIKEN) relations for unnatural (PARA PHYSIN) ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural (PHYSIKEN) relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent (ASCHEMOSYNE) acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done."
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This is the only new testament Bible text that actually discusses homogenital acts at any length, it occurs in the first chapter of Paul's letter to the Romans. This verse is used by many to show that homosexuality is "unnatural", that there is punishment for it, and that it also discusses lesbian sex. But considering to whom Paul is writing, how he is making his point, and to what end, all these conclusions seem to be wrong. To understand these verses, one must understand the context of this whole passage. Paul's letter to the Romans raises a question about the "natural" and the "unnatural". He certainly was referring to homogenital acts; but what was he really saying?
PHYSIS is the Greek word for nature. For Paul, the "nature" of something was its particular character or kind. In Romans 2:14, Paul speaks of Gentiles who follow their own conscience and "do instinctively (PHYSEI) what the law requires." But, the Greek text reads "by nature", and the implication is that these Gentiles act as is consistent with the kind of persons they are. For Paul, something is "natural" when it responds according to its kind, when it is as it is expected to be. For Paul, the word "natural" does not mean "in accordance with natural laws." Rather, "natural" refers to what is characteristic, consistent, ordinary, standard, expected, and regular. When people acted as expected, they were acting "naturally". When people did something surprising,s omething unusual, something beyond the routine, they were acting "unnaturally." That was the sense of the word "nature" in Paul's usage. -
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Dionys1 month ago
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The Greek word PARA usually means "beside", "more than", "over and above", or "beyond". Given Paul's usage of the term, the sense is not "in opposition to", but "unexpectedly" or "in an unusual way". So, what does it mean when Romans says that the "women exchanged natural relations for unnatrual and the men likewise..."? It means that these women and men were engaging in sexual practices that were not the ones people usually perform. The practices were beyond the regular, outside the ordinary, more than the usual, not the expected. There is no sense whatever in those words that the practices were wrong or against God. According to Paul's usage, the words only say that the practices were different from what one would generally expect. This could mean many things. In Romans 11:24, Paul uses the very same words PARA PHYSIN to talk about God. Obviously, the words do not imply any kind of ethical condemnation.
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Other verses support the same general conclusion. In verses 26 and 27, Paul uses two words to describe the sexual acts he has in mind: "degrading passions" and "shameless acts". Neither of these words has an ethical connotation. Both refer simply to social disapproval. Take "degrading passions" for example. The Greek word transleates as "degrading" is ATIMIA. It means something "not highly valued, "not held in honor", "not respected". "Socially unacceptable" also conveys the meaning of the word and is the very sense in which Paul uses it. For example, in 2 Corinthians 6:8 and 11:21, Paul applies that word to himself. He notes that he is sometimes held in disrepute or shame because of his commitment to Christ. Evidently then, to be labelled ATIMIA is not necessarily a bad thing. Again, in 1 Corinthians 11:14 paul uses the word to suggest that it is "degrating" for a man to wear long hair. Even though Paul says this is what "nature" teaches, it is clear that no ethical judgment is intended. In none of the cases in which Paul uses the word does the word express a moral judgment. So, when Paul calls certain passions "degrading" in Romans 1:26, he is not saying that they are wrong, only that they do not enjoy social approval.
Basically, the same meaning applies to the word ASCHEMOSYNE, translated as "shameless acts" in verse 27. Literally, the word means "not according to form". Again, by using these words he makes no ethical condemnation of homosexuality. He merely points out social disapproval of it. For all of the words Paul used, there were other words that he could have chosen that DO mean "ethically wrong", but they were untentionally never used to describe homosexual behavior. -
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Dionys1 month ago
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It is ironic that to insure the unity of believers was the purpose of Pauls' writing, yet these verses serve today so often to divide and are used to condemn one's brothers and sisters. What would he think of how the verses are being used so often today? Paul insisted on faith and love as the things that really matter in Christ, but by misunderstanding paul's argument, people unwittingly rely on tastes and customs instead of the word of God. They argue about what's dirty or clean, dispute who's pure and impure, and pit heterosexual against homosexual. Thus, they divide and splinter the church over what does not matter in christ. They commit a grave injustice, the very offense that Pauls' letter meant to counter.
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cowboygrandpa1 month ago
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Nice thoughts.
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"Paul insisted on faith and love as the things that really matter in Christ, but by misunderstanding paul's argument, people unwittingly rely on tastes and customs instead of the word of God. They argue about what's dirty or clean, dispute who's pure and impure, and pit heterosexual against homosexual. Thus, they divide and splinter the church over what does not matter in christ."
First off we are all sinners. Some are sanctified in Christ through their acceptance of what He did at the Cross, their repentance of their sins, and their turning from the life of sin they led , to live a life of redemption in Jesus Christ !!!
There is no forgiveness if we continue to live in the sin we confessed and were supposed to turn from. There is a false confession, or a confession that is emotional only.
But it has no effect upon the lives of the people and they continue to die in sin believing they are saved.
We are told we will know them by their fruit. Well if they bare rotten fruit what are they ???
Many want to claim they are forgiven because they fear the eternal death. It is still an eternal death even if you are trying to fool yourself into believing you are saved.
We who are in Christ are not to judge those who are not in Christ. That is the job of God.
But we who are in Christ are supposed to look out for and love our fellow Christians. We are to tell them when the are erring.
If they will not accept it we are to bring it to the attention of the elders. If they will still not accept it. We are to turn away from them, and turn them over to satan.
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