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Posted by: canadianrancher57 1 month, 3 weeks ago

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    canadianrancher571 month, 3 weeks ago

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    All journeys begin with a single step.

    If this story is true it is hard to say how it will work in the long run, but maybe the opening of a new door will hopefully bring peace to the region. I don't know about everyone else but I would love to see hostilities in this area cease. Even with the recognizing of a Palestinian State it would only be a starting point and there will likely be years of negotiations on borders. Peace and change take time but without a starting point there never is any progress.

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      avoth1 month, 3 weeks ago

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      "All journeys begin with a single step."

      The "journey" to destroy the State of Israel and the extermination of the Jewish people began long ago. The establishment of a state where no Jew will be permitted to live and where it's a crime punishable by death to sell land to a Jew, is not the first step.

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        Dionys1 month, 3 weeks ago

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        "The "journey" to destroy the State of Israel and the extermination of the Jewish people began long ago."

        You mean the journey to destroy Palestine, right? Began in 1947?

        The extermination of the Jewish people happened in Germany. You know.. by Europeans.

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          avoth1 month, 3 weeks ago

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          "You mean the journey to destroy Palestine, right? Began in 1947?"

          No, the journey to destroy Israel.

          "The extermination of the Jewish people happened in Germany. You know.. by Europeans."

          The Arabs were their allies. But it still doesn't explain the Hebron Massacre in 1929 by your Arab buddies. There was no State of Israel then, and your hero Hitler hadn't assumed control in your fatherland yet. How do you explain that?

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            Edmar141 month, 3 weeks ago

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            No Dionys, the Journey began as well in 1929 by the Grand Mufti in Jerusalem who had 100 Rabbis killed as well as 60 Jews in Hebron. None of those killed were immigrants, but Sephardic Jews who had lived in the area for untold generations. Palestine was killed by the Muslims after the conquering of the Holy Land from the remnants of the Romans. Since then, Palestine has been controlled by mostly Muslims, except for a brief period when Christian Crusaders had control, for almost 1400 years. Never in the last 1400 years of Muslim domination did a single conqueror attempt to establish Palestine as an independent country with an autonomous government of its own. On the contrary, they kept it under strict Muslim control, but gave it no autonomous control of its own. 2/3 of Palestine was stripped away by the British and handed to the Saudi Royal Family in 1922 with the establishment of Jordan, which I NEVER hear you talk about. Why is that by the way. Do you forget that 2/3 of Palestine just disappeared 25 years before Israel was established? And a Palestinian has never sat on the Jordanian throne. The rest of Palestine belonged to who? It never had an autonomous government and was never an independent nation, so who did it belong to that it was destroyed? The United Nations was the last sovereign government which was recognized by the world to have control over what was left of Palestine. They voted for partition in 1947, giving still more land to the Muslims. With 2/3 of Palestine now resting in Jordanian hands and another half of the remaining 1/3 being given to the remaining Arabs, that would be approximately 90% of the land called Palestine going to Muslim Arabs. So, who destroyed Palestine? Historically, over a 1400 year period, it was the Muslims. And history proves it. Argue all that you want, but Jordan still sits on 2/3 of Palestine. Add the West Bank and and the Gaza strip and the majority of the territory of Palestine is Muslim. The destruction of Palestine started in 635 AD, not 1947. You want to rewrite history? Be my guest. The Muslims have been doing that when it comes to Palestine since the early 1900's.

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              Dionys1 month, 3 weeks ago

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              "No Dionys, the Journey began as well in 1929 by the Grand Mufti in Jerusalem who had 100 Rabbis killed as well as 60 Jews in Hebron."

              You mean it began last year when the Israelis killed more than a thousand Palestinians?

              "The destruction of Palestine started in 635 AD, not 1947. You want to rewrite history"

              Oh.. Are we really going back in history?

              Who owned 'Israel' before 635 AD?

              http://www.mapsofwar.com/ind/imperial-history.html

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                avoth1 month, 3 weeks ago

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                "You mean it began last year when the Israelis killed more than a thousand Palestinians?"

                No, that's not what I mean and you know it. Yes, Israel killed over a thousand terrorists and their supporters. Unfortunately, some of the women and children the terrorists hid behind were accidently killed as well.

                "Who owned 'Israel' before 635 AD?"

                Check your bible. It was the JEWS. You know, the ones you (lip service alert) say should be able to live in peace and security.

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                  Dionys1 month, 3 weeks ago

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                  "Check your bible. It was the JEWS. "

                  Seriously? The Bible is now considered a land-deed?

                  Do you really want to use the Bible as a source for 'proof' of anything when it has passages about how people can treat their Jewish slaves and how they should treat the female ones, especially?

                  Check the map. Check history. Before the Jews settled, they were Nomadic. Who ruled over the area now called Israel/Jerusalem then?

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                    avoth1 month, 2 weeks ago

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                    "Seriously? The Bible is now considered a land-deed?"

                    Do you have a better source? Or any other?

                    "Do you really want to use the Bible as a source for 'proof' of anything when it has passages about how people can treat their Jewish slaves and how they should treat the female ones, especially?"

                    Sure. While we're at it, we can look at how Islam treats their women. No doubt you'd support the "honor killings" - murders of young women today by your muslim heros.

                    "Check the map. Check history. Before the Jews settled, they were Nomadic. Who ruled over the area now called Israel/Jerusalem then?"

                    Please claim it was the "Palestinians". They are always claiming they are Semites too. If you insist they were the ones there before the Jews, that would refute their claim. You'd expose their claims of being Semites as a lie. Please do that for me.

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                    Edmar141 month, 2 weeks ago

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                    Before 635AD it was the Roman conquered province of Judea or Israel, the last time that piece of land had an autonomous government of it's own. The Romans dispersed the Jews from Jerusalem in 70AD, but the land remained mostly Judea up until the Muslim conquest. The Romans may have been non-benevolent conquerors, but they left a Jewish government in place in the guise of the Sanhedrin until the Bar Kochba revolution which culminated with the Jews being dispersed in 70AD. I think that Josephus Flavius' historical writings "The Jewish Wars" is considerable proof of Jewish ownership of the land considering that Josephus lived and wrote at the time all of this was happening. The fact that King Herod was allowed to continue to rule somewhat around the time of Christ shows a considerable self autonomous government was in place even with the Roman occupation. Josephus' account of the burning of Jerusalem in 70AD and the subsequent leveling of the Temple proves that a temple actually existed at the time. His account of Massada is world known.

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              avoth1 month, 3 weeks ago

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              You know, I've always challenged my fellow Conservatives who used the phrase "liberal nazis". Judging by the number of negs on this comment I'll have to reconsider that policy.

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              Tasine1 month, 3 weeks ago

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              rancher, my question is from which nation will land be confiscated to provide a state of Palestine. If this ever happens, it will be history made as the Palestinians have never had a nation (how does one have an independent "state" ? Wouldn't that have to be a "nation". Which nation will be foreced to cede land for such?

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                Dionys1 month, 3 weeks ago

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                "my question is from which nation will land be confiscated to provide a state of Palestine"

                I suspect the Palestinians would just like to be given back the land promised to them when all of it was taken for the Jewish state.

                "it will be history made as the Palestinians have never had a nation "

                Keep selling the lie despite maps going back to the 1700s showing Palestine as a nation.

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                  avoth1 month, 3 weeks ago

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                  "I suspect the Palestinians would just like to be given back the land promised to them when all of it was taken for the Jewish state."

                  Keep repeating that lie. The Palestinian Mandate was promised to the Jews in the Balfour Declaration. 78% was lopped off and given to Jordon. The Palestinians should live there.

                  "it will be history made as the Palestinians have never had a nation "

                  "Keep selling the lie despite maps going back to the 1700s showing Palestine as a nation."

                  OK, name me a Palestinian leader before Yasir Arafat. Who was the first leader of the Palestinian people? When did they declare their independence?

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                    Edmar141 month, 3 weeks ago

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                    If all of it was taken for a Jewish state, how come Jordan sits on 2/3 of Palestine? Did Jordan suddenly become a Jewish state?
                    "it will be history made as the Palestinians have never had a nation "> Of course they have a nation. It is called Jordan which was created in 1922 to be a national homeland for the Palestinians. It's just that Dionys and Justice like to forget that little fact of history. Jordan sits on 2/3 of Palestine. It's an historical and physical fact. Denying it doesn't change it any more than denying the holocaust changes that fact. The educated know the facts. The uneducated are always easily swayed.

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                    Justice4All1 month, 3 weeks ago

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                    The Palestinians want Palestine back. That's pretty obvious.

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                      Edmar141 month, 3 weeks ago

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                      Muslims want everything. They don't share. I've said it a million times, but no one has ever been able to show where a Muslim majority has ever voluntarily shared anything with a non-Muslim minority. Please Justice 4 All, show me where Muslims share anything voluntarily. They tried it in Lebanon with a sharing of the government between the Christians majority and Muslim minority (now a Muslim Majority). You saw what happened there after almost 30 years of civil war. What do the Christians have now? In fact, what do the Christians or Jews have in any part of the Muslim world? Ask a Maronite or Coptic Christian. They'll tell you- but you're not going to like the answer.

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                        Dionys1 month, 3 weeks ago

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                        "You saw what happened there after almost 30 years of civil war."

                        Seriously?

                        Ask a Lebanese Christian who caused the problems in Lebanon.

                        I think the answer will surprise you.

                        But then you'll never bother asking an actual Lebanese person.

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                          Edmar141 month, 2 weeks ago

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                          Really? You obviously don't know much about the history of Lebanon. It was suppose to have been a Christian nation after the French left. Lebanon had a Maronite Christian majority. The Civil war wasn't started by the Christians. By the time the war started in the 1970's the Maronites were no longer the majority. Funny how the "shared power" that the Lebanese constitution calls for has changed. Just for your information, I have two very good Lebanese Christian friends on faculty. They don't particularly like your post, considering that they left Lebanon during the Civil War years after being physically threatened while teaching at a Lebanese university. Their knowledge of the Civil War is considerably different than is yours. I did bother to ask an actual Lebanese person. Two in fact, and educated ones at that.

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                            canadianrancher571 month, 2 weeks ago

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                            Tasine ask me what lands I felt belong to Palestine and should they be confiscated to create a nation and I don't have an answer for her question, I have read your comments on Jordan and accept them, I also accept the nation of Israel as it is today, so maybe I could ask you the question If a state were to be created for the Palestinians what area could it possibly involve excluding Israel.

                            I have to get to bed and get some sleep, but would be interested about your thoughts.

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