A Spoonful Of 'Socialism' Makes Capitalism Work : NPR »
Posted By jovial 2 weeks, 4 days ago in Political Opinion
Eighty years ago this week, the roaring free market of the 1920s came to a devastating collapse. What we didn't understand then, and still don't wholly understand now, is that capitalism is not a perfect system. It needs rules and regulations, and more than ever, it needs them now.
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jovial
Grew up In Brooklyn. Joined the Navy in 1976 stayed in 10 years. Aircraft Electronics tech. Worked for Major Govt. contractor then settled in California ...
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bigurn2 weeks, 3 days ago
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So... a history teacher explains economics. Great, now we'll get politicians explaining millennial global temperature fluctuation.... errrr, OK, I'll get other metaphors later.
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Please explain to Mr. McElvanie that significant permanent government intervention took place after the Great Depression. Those changes force the U.S. government to act in the face on pending economic collapse where GDP rates could drop 10% in a quarter. So, that comparison doesn't work.
Next, government intervention was part and parcel of this recession. It was the government which created regulations forcing home loans to be given to people who would not have qualified for them under normal rules. It was the government which stipulated ARM loans so that home ownership could become a reality for those who would not qualify before, and *they were warned of the risk*.
Government regulations paved the way for the current recession. We'll get through it, though our rising debt, and our debt obligation, will make tax increases for everyone a certainty. Our deficit in October was as high as the deficit in a normal YEAR over the preceeding 10 years. Unemployment is over 10%, after assurances of it not rising higher than 8%. Two economists argued this week that it will rise to 12%. UNDERemployment is over 20% (that's where you are demonstrably overqualified for the job you hold). Teenage unemployment is at Post-WWII record levels, which will probably lead to higher crime rates in the next 10 years.
I think I've had enough Socialism for a while. Time to change back to something that works.
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jimdoze2 weeks, 4 days ago
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Dump Trucks of Socialism WILL screw you, your issue and your country four ways to Sunday!
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No one who truly understands and believes in capitalism has any illusions as to the notion that it is "perfect". It isn't.
However, history has irrefutably shown that the notion that economic systems are "perfectable" and the notion that some "chosen" few individuals are smarter than markets are complete and utter fairy tales.-
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jovial2 weeks, 4 days ago
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Dump trucks of Capitalism will screw you, your issue and your country four ways to Sunday too! The countries that are all growing faster than we are economically all have their own forms of socialism. A purely capitalistic economy with no wealth share to the workers and to the other consumers in society is a an "unperfect model" of a modern successful society.
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hyperbola2 weeks, 3 days ago
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Well jimdo, we should never forget that already 250 years ago Adam Smith concluded that unfettered capitalism leads automatically to fraud, corruption and an oligarchy that preys on the majority of the population. That is why he was an adamant proponent of STRONG public regulation of markets.
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fiftynine2 weeks, 4 days ago
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Digisol2 weeks, 4 days ago
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some times socialism regarded by the poor and unprivileged as a ideal more than the god. they worshiped it and died for it. Some times capitalism regarded as the best policy to leave as human beings, but not get popularity like socialism.
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jovial2 weeks, 4 days ago
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Let's take a look at our society if government had gloves off and never intervened. (An extreme case but some are calling for it) Walmart would be the store for most daily needs. Mcdonald's and all other big chain stores that haven't already gobbled up all the competition would limit our ability to shop around for other prices. Mergers and hostile takeover bids would be normal and frequent. A few big corporations will provide all of the services and goods you receive from "cradle to grave". Many foods and drugs we consume would begin to make people ill due to the non-existent government oversight. We might find formaldehyde in our food as was the case in China. Potholes in the street and new road construction would cease. Without the corporations building roads (and why should they there's no money in it for them) Travel would become harder to do. If corporations were forced to repave roads so they can move their goods from city to city, they would pass that cost on to all consumers of their goods. Even if the consumer doesn't directly benefit from the road improvement. Mass transit in cities would become privatized. Fares would be whatever the market could stand. Since they'd probably be monopolized by one or two big companies they could fix the price any where they liked. Mom and Pop businesses would be forced out of business. The bigger companies would cut off their business and squeeze them out of the market. Home mortgages and loans would be run differently. Late payments could be set to make an immediate default. Or they could make late charges so excessive that most people wouldn't be able to pay them. Healthcare costs would skyrocket there'd be one or two healthcare companies nationwide. Doctors, nurses and patients would be at the mercy of these insurance companies. Unions would be totally eliminated. The corporations would be so powerful that unions would have little leverage. The police and fire would be general contractors like Blackwater. Calling the police for assistance could be charged to your credit card.
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Ukrainian2 weeks, 3 days ago
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Do a little reading on socialism and capitalism. You are pretty funny, but You are so far off and confused it would be impossibe to deal with you in this limited space. But, I'll try. First off, socialism is not the government building roads, or cities supplying public services. Secondly, China, still Communist, and as you point out , is the one with the most all of the tainted products. Thirdly, Capitalism encourages entrepreneurs to find better and cheaper ways of doing things and constantly innovates. Otherwixe after these few hundred years there would only be one company running everything and setting all the supply and demand. (OH wait, that's the government you want, and that is socialism). Business which produces all the goods and services and employs most of the people in the country can only sell what the public will buy, at the price the public is willing to pay.
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jovial2 weeks, 4 days ago
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Cont.
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Slavery and Jim Crow laws would still exist. Blacks and women wouldn't have the right to vote. Bankruptcy would be outlawed. Debtor prisons would be built. The military VA would be closed. After you left the service you would have to get private insurance just like everyone else. The elderly would continue to pay for insurance. Medicaid and Medicare would be eliminated. As you get older the premiums would increase. Pre-existing conditions would ban you forever from getting medical treatment again in the U.S. unless you pay cash for it.
What do you think of this unbridled capitalism type scenario? Is this the country that conservatives and some libertarians envision for us? If you read closely some of these things are already happening. How much further do we want to go down this road? -
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Ukrainian2 weeks, 3 days ago
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A highway system is not socialism!!! Can't you get a friggin" grip on that? Controlling the means of production, like an auto manufacturer, controlling the credit markets like Ginnie and Fannie, setting wages and prices like the PAY CZAR, is socialism. Libraries, fire departments and roads are not sdocialism. It is a function of government.
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dgoodii2 weeks, 4 days ago
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You fools see normal community and societal needs as socialism, that is truly amusing. Capitalism has nothing to do with the government ruling you, it allows natural needs and wants to be taken care of through demand.
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What form of socialism are we speaking of, total control, mixed economy, utopia or equal outcome for all who work. Most modern forms are more on the lines of mixed with heavy regulation and taxation of producers, with large groups of poor and lesser citizens.
Freedom can not exist where socialism does, government will never allow others to show them up. Without control of most things socialism fails as well, not enough revenue to pay for every thing government thinks is needed.
As to the Highways being a socialist venture, you pay to use and maintain them through taxes or fees on fuel. Capitalist funding model, those whom drive on or use them, pay for them. Now if the fees and taxes or not enough then government has failed to budget or adjust them properly. Another problem with central governments that control everything, no real value for work, products, or materials can be set.-
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jovial2 weeks, 4 days ago
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You pay through your taxes,fees and fuel to the government. The government then provides those roads. A common line I hear from conservatives is why should i have to pay for something i don't use. Should people have a right to opt-out of paying those taxes and fees? If they do opt out how would anyone be able to enforce the fact that they shouldn't use the roads? Or could people opt-out and use the roads anyway, because it's their "freedom" to do so?
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pboccuti2 weeks, 1 day ago
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Well since the 1st fire departments in the country were Private for hire companies, who would fight each other over the right to claim the insurance money as payment, all the while letting the building burn to the ground, I would say that a professional fire department is a result of Socialist ways.
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amazed2 weeks, 4 days ago
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Yes, capitalism needs some controls to keep from going off the rails, but the controls it needs are those to curb its excesses, not the nit-picking micro-management and government required mandates that we must deal with today.
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Reasonable gov't regulations include those things that the majority of honest business people would do anyway -- providing a day's pay for a day's work, allowing employees reasonable time off, being honest in advertising, building products that are capable of doing what they are supposed to do, protecting the long-term value of the company (this one has been totally lost because of gov't interference -- namely the "too big to fail" doctrine) and things like this.
Requiring companies to spend $150K on a piece of equipment that will provide the company with $50K worth of benefit to themselves, their consumers or the environment, is gov't regulation gone wrong. Taking from successful people and businesses through high tax rates and distributing that money to those unable or unwilling to do for themselves is, quite simply, socialism, and is, necessarily, an abridgement of personal liberty.
The only thing that can result from an ever expanding government is every contracting personal freedom.-
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hyperbola2 weeks, 3 days ago
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Perhaps. But our real problems at present are not with government. They are with gigantic corrupt corporations and a corrupt oligarchic class. Frankly at present Americans need more protection from those kinds of racketeers than from "government":
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